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Old 07-05-2018, 14:56   #811
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Last post cut some of the arctic over Greenland and I didn't want to be accused of hiding data.

yes climate reanalizer always is well above all the rest of the models.
Even with that in mind -10℃ or colder actual is still well below the freezing point.
Many areas are well below -30℃ .
Why does every MMGW believer only post the anomalous readings and not the actual for comparison.
Lets see if it was normal it would be-20℃ instead of -10℃ . Still well below any possible melting of anything in the arctic
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Old 07-05-2018, 15:09   #812
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

This is really gonna cause a meltdown of MMGWC .
It appears us skeptics are better for the environment than the greenies.
https://amp.washingtontimes.com/news...obal-warming-/
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Old 07-05-2018, 15:20   #813
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
Last post cut some of the arctic over Greenland and I didn't want to be accused of hiding data.

yes climate reanalizer always is well above all the rest of the models.
Even with that in mind -10℃ or colder actual is still well below the freezing point.
Many areas are well below -30℃ .
Why does every MMGW believer only post the anomalous readings and not the actual for comparison.
Lets see if it was normal it would be-20℃ instead of -10℃ . Still well below any possible melting of anything in the arctic
Once again you are mistaken.

Whether sea water melts or freezes is not dependent only on air temperatures, but also on the (subsurface) water temperature. The air temperature needs to be well below freezing for even the surface of the ocean to freeze. For a thick layer of sea ice to form the air temperature needs to be FAR below freezing. When the air temperature is well above normal temperatures, even though still below freezing, the sea ice is, at best, not getting thicker, and most likely is melting from below.
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Old 07-05-2018, 15:33   #814
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
Why does every MMGW believer only post the anomalous readings and not the actual for comparison.
Lets see if it was normal it would be-20℃ instead of -10℃ . Still well below any possible melting of anything in the arctic
The reading are not anomalous: they are anomalies/differences from the mean. That is to say they show if temperatures are higher or lower than the mean, aka the norm. This allows for a comparison.

The Arctic is melting - and it is 2 SD below the mean.

https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/c...sea-ice-graph/

Quote:
Average Arctic sea ice volume in April 2018 was 22,250 km3. This value is the second lowest on record tied with 2016 and about 1500 km3 above the previous April record that was set in 2017 with 22,600 km3 . Ice volume was 32% below the maximum in 1979 and 19% below the mean value for 1979-2017. April 2018 ice volume sits right on the long term trend line.
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Old 07-05-2018, 15:34   #815
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by SailOar View Post
Once again you are mistaken.

Whether sea water melts or freezes is not dependent only on air temperatures, but also on the (subsurface) water temperature. The air temperature needs to be well below freezing for even the surface of the ocean to freeze. For a thick layer of sea ice to form the air temperature needs to be FAR below freezing. When the air temperature is well above normal temperatures, even though still below freezing, the sea ice is, at best, not getting thicker, and most likely is melting from below.
not mistaken I'm just putting your chart showing abnormalities with regard to temperatures into proper context.
It would do your cause better if you were to post both at the same time.
At least for appearances .
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Old 07-05-2018, 15:36   #816
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
The reading are not anomalous: they are anomalies/differences from the mean. That is to say they show if temperatures are higher or lower than the mean, aka the norm. This allows for a comparison.

The Arctic is melting - and it is 2 SD below the mean.

https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/c...sea-ice-graph/



jack do you know how they actually get the deviations for their charts?
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Old 07-05-2018, 15:39   #817
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
The reading are not anomalous: they are anomalies/differences from the mean. That is to say they show if temperatures are higher or lower than the mean, aka the norm. This allows for a comparison.

The Arctic is melting - and it is 2 SD below the mean.

https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/c...sea-ice-graph/



what does your chart of sea ice even have to do with the basic need to post the actual temperatures along with the anomaly temperature chart for proper comparison . And dispel the myth of impropriety . ( I know nobody on here is attempting to hide what they feel is the truth)
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Old 07-05-2018, 16:22   #818
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
The reading are not anomalous: they are anomalies/differences from the mean. That is to say they show if temperatures are higher or lower than the mean, aka the norm. This allows for a comparison.

The Arctic is melting - and it is 2 SD below the mean.

https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/c...sea-ice-graph/




I wonder. If this ice melt is a result of AGW, then why are we not seeing an exponential a.k.a. hockey stick) decline in ice volumes. And why does this chart say there is twenty two thousand something square kilometres of sea ice when NSIDC says that there is close to 14 million square kilometres for the same April '18 period? Is it this 15% thing?
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Old 07-05-2018, 16:34   #819
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
This is really gonna cause a meltdown of MMGWC .
It appears us skeptics are better for the environment than the greenies.
https://amp.washingtontimes.com/news...obal-warming-/
This topic is interesting. From your article...
Quote:
Mr. Gore, a leading climate-change activist, has long come under fire for his carbon-emitting ways, such as burning 21 times more kilowatt hours annually at his Nashville mansion than the average U.S. household, according to a 2017 study by the National Center for Public Policy Research.

His swimming pool alone uses enough electricity to power six average homes for a year, the study said.

Mr. Gore told CNN last year that he leads a “carbon-free lifestyle to the maximum extent possible,” pointing out that he doesn’t own a private jet and that he buys carbon offsets to balance his home and flights on Southwest Airlines.
Here's another recent study:

Tourism nearly a tenth of global CO2 emissions | PHYS.ORG

Domestic and international tourism account for eight percent of greenhouse gas emissions, four times more than previously estimated, according to a study published in Nature Climate Change. The researchers identified air travel as the major contributor to the overall emissions from global tourism.

"To make my own travel more sustainable—for future generations—I invest in long-run abatement options at prices that incorporate at least average abatement costs, like investing in afforestation, rather than assuming only low-hanging fruit, like residential power efficiency. If I flew from Melbourne to the UK return, I would pay at least an additional $425 to offset my emissions; for a return trip between Sydney and Brisbane, about $45 extra," Professor Lenzen said.
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Old 07-05-2018, 16:37   #820
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by SailOar View Post
Once again you are mistaken.

Whether sea water melts or freezes is not dependent only on air temperatures, but also on the (subsurface) water temperature. The air temperature needs to be well below freezing for even the surface of the ocean to freeze. For a thick layer of sea ice to form the air temperature needs to be FAR below freezing. When the air temperature is well above normal temperatures, even though still below freezing, the sea ice is, at best, not getting thicker, and most likely is melting from below.
The Arctic sea ice is supposedly being melted by the ocean, as oft cited references to the loss of "old ice" imply. This means that for this to be the case, it must be the ocean more than the atmosphere doing the melting. It's also interesting the the NSIDC also says ice is declining at around 3% per decade (that's 300 years or so before it's all gone, using simple maths, btw). So where's all the doom and gloom regarding the ocean heat and why isn't it reflected in sea level rise?

And if it is the ocean heating up thanks to AGW, why this (taken from the above link):

Quote:
Antarctic ice extent has a small increasing trend in all months (Parkinson and Cavalieri 2012), but the Antarctic is more notable for its high variability. After setting record-high maximum extents each September from 2012 through 2014, the Antarctic had record-low maximum extents during September 2016 and 2017.
Especially considering this....


Because if I were to describe the heat exchange cooling system of my engine with my limited drawing ability, it would look an awful lot like the bottom half of that diagram.
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Old 07-05-2018, 16:47   #821
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by SailOar View Post
This topic is interesting. From your article...


Here's another recent study:

Tourism nearly a tenth of global CO2 emissions | PHYS.ORG

Domestic and international tourism account for eight percent of greenhouse gas emissions, four times more than previously estimated, according to a study published in Nature Climate Change. The researchers identified air travel as the major contributor to the overall emissions from global tourism.

"To make my own travel more sustainable—for future generations—I invest in long-run abatement options at prices that incorporate at least average abatement costs, like investing in afforestation, rather than assuming only low-hanging fruit, like residential power efficiency. If I flew from Melbourne to the UK return, I would pay at least an additional $425 to offset my emissions; for a return trip between Sydney and Brisbane, about $45 extra," Professor Lenzen said.
Ahem, old mate should consider other solutions...



It's proven technology, after all. We didn't have global warming when these things were the premium mode of long distance transport.
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Old 07-05-2018, 17:20   #822
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
I wonder. If this ice melt is a result of AGW, then why are we not seeing an exponential a.k.a. hockey stick) decline in ice volumes. And why does this chart say there is twenty two thousand something square kilometres of sea ice when NSIDC says that there is close to 14 million square kilometres for the same April '18 period? Is it this 15% thing?
stop interjecting facts it upsets some here
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Old 07-05-2018, 17:28   #823
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Guess who's out of the Penalty Box.....ah.....I'mmmmm BAAAAAAK
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Old 07-05-2018, 17:43   #824
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
I wonder. If this ice melt is a result of AGW, then why are we not seeing an exponential a.k.a. hockey stick) decline in ice volumes. And why does this chart say there is twenty two thousand something square kilometres of sea ice when NSIDC says that there is close to 14 million square kilometres for the same April '18 period? Is it this 15% thing?
in case you haven't noticed jack likes to just post the anomalies charts not actual observational charts.
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Old 07-05-2018, 17:49   #825
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

I noticed....
But you just sniffed out the game of the MMGWC.
Take snippets of real data and then distort it and mix in some "adjusted data" and sha-zam. The solution for this "problem" is a Carbon Tax with the money (Trillions) to be distributed with the folks doing the distribution getting their cut. Follow the money....
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