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Old 27-04-2018, 14:37   #721
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
wood for trees now that's not biased at all
How so? Please substantiate that assertion.
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Old 27-04-2018, 15:31   #722
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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I am on a tablet for now I currently can not do any graphs sorry. ( wish I could ) especially considering the attempt at a scatter graph in post 575 I could do better with a blinders and buckshot.) for graphs from me you will have to wait about 6 months in till I have time on a regular computer. )
I was "pulling your leg". JackDale makes fine graphs.
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Old 27-04-2018, 16:58   #723
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Solar cycle 23 began in 1996. Here is a plot of temperatures against sunspot activity. Temperatures are increasing, sunspot activity is decreasing.

Jackdale. I'm shocked. Your graph is quite clearly illustrating the non-existant pause.
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Old 27-04-2018, 21:29   #724
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Jackdale. I'm shocked. Your graph is quite clearly illustrating the non-existant pause.
Only if you start with 1998, the largest El Nino event of the previous 50 years.
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Old 27-04-2018, 22:46   #725
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Only if you start with 1998, the largest El Nino event of the previous 50 years.
Don't tell the fathers of global warming that. 1998 was their "I told you's so!" smoking gun moment.

Besides, don't look at the maximums. Look at the minimums. If I were to slowly heat a medium, I wouldn't expect it to periodically return to the same minimum temperature during the process of heating up.
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Old 28-04-2018, 03:54   #726
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Could sprinkling sand save the Arctic's shrinking sea ice? | The Guardian

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...While the North Meadow Lake near Utqiaġvik, formerly known as Barrow, may be relatively nondescript, it will be the staging ground this month for an ambitious attempt to safeguard the Arctic’s rapidly diminishing sea ice and stave off the most punishing effects of global warming.

Tiny spheres of reflective sand will be sprinkled upon the lake to see if this can prevent the lake ice from melting or slow the process down. Should testing prove successful, the project, called Ice911, has the grand vision of slathering around 19,000 sq miles of sea ice – equivalent to the size of Costa Rica – with trillions of sand grains in order to stem the loss of ice cover and prevent runaway climate change...

Field isn’t targeting the whole Arctic region – instead focusing on areas such as Fram Strait, between Greenland and the Norwegian island of Svalbard – but the cost to festoon 19,000 sq miles of ice in silica would still be around $750m, not including labour....
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Old 28-04-2018, 04:40   #727
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Is the planet going to implode if all the Arctic sea ice melts?
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Old 28-04-2018, 05:25   #728
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Given that the recent precipitous rise in temperatures seems to be a geophysical anomaly --




(posted by JackDale)

-- and also given that a host of natural factors, plus a number of human factors, appear to well explain the recent precipitous rise in temperatures--


(as posted by Jackdale)

-- what are these "natural influences [that Curry thinks] are more to blame"?
You'd have to ask her, or easier yet just do a quick google search. But despite appearances, you may not find anything objective in the NYT, WP or NPR. I don't think it does much good for a couple of non-expert laymen to argue the myriad of man-made vs. natural forces which potentially impact the climate.
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Old 28-04-2018, 05:28   #729
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Is the planet going to implode if all the Arctic sea ice melts?
Only if the Guardian says so. Watch for an article coming our way soon . . . .
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Old 28-04-2018, 05:49   #730
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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You'd have to ask her, or easier yet just do a quick google search. But despite appearances, you may not find anything objective in the NYT, WP or NPR. I don't think it does much good for a couple of non-expert laymen to argue the myriad of man-made vs. natural forces which potentially impact the climate.
Oddly enough, none of the presented charts came from NYT, WP or NPR. Hope you're not too disappointed. It seems that if something does come from a mainstream media source you feel justified in your denialism, even if the article is based on a peer-reviewed scientific study reported in a well-regarded scientific journal.
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Old 28-04-2018, 06:36   #731
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Is the planet going to implode if all the Arctic sea ice melts?
As a thought experiment, if all the Arctic sea ice were to melt (and nothing else changed), would the sea level rise, stay the same, or fall?
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Old 28-04-2018, 06:42   #732
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Oddly enough, none of the presented charts came from NYT, WP or NPR. Hope you're not too disappointed. It seems that if something does come from a mainstream media source you feel justified in your denialism, even if the article is based on a peer-reviewed scientific study reported in a well-regarded scientific journal.
Nah, just trying to raise awareness about the subtleties of media bias. And of course yanking on your chain a little bit. As you recall, I did the same with the nitrogen study as reported in IBD. It seems that whenever significant issues of the day become politicized the truth gets distorted. The more complex the issue the more people have a tendency to look for easy answers. So the proponents & publishers of the issues tend to get scrutinized rather than the underlying issues themselves. Especially in this era of hyper-politics. I'm just saying that media editors and journalists don't necessarily understand the science better than anybody else, and are vulnerable to the same biases. And they have the added incentive of wanting to sell newspapers, of course, and the pro-CC movement definitely sells!

Btw, how does one know if the results of a published scientific study have been peer-reviewed? And where would one find the critiques accompanying such a review, whether positive or negative? This is why I've found it instructive to read parts of Curry's blog (Climate, etc.) on occasion. While many of her views are very much mainstream, others are obviously controversial. So there are a lot of scientists and other well-informed people commenting. It's always the dialectic (as Jack says) that best informs & educates, but people are naturally more drawn towards information that confirms their own beliefs.

It's the nature of man (and woman) . . .
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Old 28-04-2018, 06:44   #733
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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As a thought experiment, if all the Arctic sea ice were to melt (and nothing else changed), would the sea level rise, stay the same, or fall?
Actually according to the basic laws of physics the level will rise however it will be an almost unprecievable amount well within the range of error for the satellites.
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Old 28-04-2018, 06:44   #734
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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As a thought experiment, if all the Arctic sea ice were to melt (and nothing else changed), would the sea level rise, stay the same, or fall?
Stay the same, but certain media outlets would make a LOT of money.
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Old 28-04-2018, 06:59   #735
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by SailOar
As a thought experiment, if all the Arctic sea ice were to melt (and nothing else changed), would the sea level rise, stay the same, or fall?
Quote:
Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
Actually according to the basic laws of physics the level will rise however it will be an almost unprecievable amount well within the range of error for the satellites.
Quote:
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Stay the same, but certain media outlets would make a LOT of money.
Anyone wish to vote for the sea levels falling, or does anyone wish to break the tie between Newhaul and Exile?
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