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Old 12-04-2018, 08:37   #361
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
not money grubbing just a simple truth the ipcc models have been proven to be significantly higher. (From 1 to 5 deg ) above the actual temperatures as recorded by weather stations that are actually still reporting .
BTW - still waiting for your Pearson product moment correlation of sunspots and temperatures. I gave you the source of data for each.

Also have you figured out the ideal gas law yet and shown how pressure is the long-term determinant of temperature?
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Old 12-04-2018, 09:12   #362
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
BTW - still waiting for your Pearson product moment correlation of sunspots and temperatures. I gave you the source of data for each.

Also have you figured out the ideal gas law yet and shown how pressure is the long-term determinant of temperature?
not my homework I made the assertion you need review and prove me wrong.

Btw in global warming scenarios the troposphere warms correct?
Then why is the troposphere cooling ( temperature in now lowest in 17 years and falling.
https://ghrc.nsstc.nasa.gov/amsutemp...temps.pl?r=003
http://notrickszone.com/2018/04/11/a....eNIRp4fm.dpbs
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Old 12-04-2018, 09:54   #363
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
not my homework I made the assertion you need review and prove me wrong.

Btw in global warming scenarios the troposphere warms correct?
Then why is the troposphere cooling ( temperature in now lowest in 17 years and falling.
https://ghrc.nsstc.nasa.gov/amsutemp...temps.pl?r=003
Array Of Data Shows Atmospheric Temperatures In Free Fall, Ocean Surfaces Cooling Off
You made the assertion - you have to provide the evidence to support that assertion - that is a middle school concept. I have already used woodfortrees to successfully dispute your assertion.

As for your graph. You picked the altitude of Mount Everest. And you choose 2 years.

Long term temperature trend. You are following the noise; we are still in a La Nina event.




NTZ is known for misrepresenting science and relying on predatory journals.

Ocean heat content is not falling.

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Old 12-04-2018, 10:15   #364
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
not my homework I made the assertion you need review and prove me wrong.
Well it certainly explains alot if you think your assertions contradict established physical laws, and that you have no responsibility to demonstrate why you're correct and the law is not...


"...its not the composition of the respective atmospheres it is atmospheric pressure . That determines the base temperature"


Boyle's law (sometimes referred to as the Boyle–Mariotte law, or Mariotte's law[1]) is an experimental gas law that describes how the pressure of a gas tends to increase as the volume of the container decreases. A modern statement of Boyle's law is
The absolute pressure exerted by a given mass of an ideal gas is inversely proportional to the volume it occupies if the temperature and amount of gas remain unchanged within a closed system.[2][3]
The onus of proof is on you...
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Old 12-04-2018, 11:38   #365
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
You made the assertion - you have to provide the evidence to support that assertion - that is a middle school concept. I have already used woodfortrees to successfully dispute your assertion.

As for your graph. You picked the altitude of Mount Everest. And you choose 2 years.

Long term temperature trend. You are following the noise; we are still in a La Nina event.




NTZ is known for misrepresenting science and relying on predatory journals.

Ocean heat content is not falling.

argo seems to say otherwise.
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Old 12-04-2018, 11:44   #366
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
You made the assertion - you have to provide the evidence to support that assertion - that is a middle school concept. I have already used woodfortrees to successfully dispute your assertion.

As for your graph. You picked the altitude of Mount Everest. And you choose 2 years.

Long term temperature trend. You are following the noise; we are still in a La Nina event.




NTZ is known for misrepresenting science and relying on predatory journals.

Ocean heat content is not falling.

yes 25k feet which is middle upper troposphere as I stated in my post besides the fact that the surface and near surface as well as the 14k measurement sensors have failed at various times in the past and are no longer providing data.
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Old 12-04-2018, 14:22   #367
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

I spent some time today calculating a coefficient of correlation between the mean sunspots per annum and the mean temperature anomaly per annum, from 2000 - 2016 , the range for which I have data.

r = -0.106226184

The scattergraph is attached.

Conclusion a very weak negative correlation
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Old 12-04-2018, 14:26   #368
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
argo seems to say otherwise.

Is there a particular reason why you present a graph of tropical sea surface temperatures, rather than global sea temperatures, 0-700 meters, which is what jackdale's graph presents?

From the site you apparently got your graph from--

Ocean 0-1900m depth temperature summary

Diagram showing average 0-2000m depth ocean temperatures in selected latitudinal bands, using Argo-data. The thin line shows monthly values and the thick line shows the running 13-month average. Source: Global Marine Argo Atlas. Latest month shown: December 2017. Last diagram update: 21 February 2018.

climate4you OceanTemperaturesAndSeaLevel
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Old 12-04-2018, 14:28   #369
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
argo seems to say otherwise.
Read the title of the argo graphic

"Surface Sea Temperature Tropics"

Then read title of the graph I posted.

"0-700m Global Ocean Heat Content"

apples and oranges
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Old 12-04-2018, 14:29   #370
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
yes 25k feet which is middle upper troposphere as I stated in my post besides the fact that the surface and near surface as well as the 14k measurement sensors have failed at various times in the past and are no longer providing data.
Yes, you should
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Old 12-04-2018, 15:20   #371
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Intersting read on Gcaptain.

Researchers Map Seven Years of Arctic Shipping – gCaptain
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Old 12-04-2018, 15:54   #372
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by Erik de Jong View Post
thanks for the post .
I saw the same omission in that article that I see in most articles about the LNG tankers that have made this transit . They are not just ice hardend hulls they are ice breakers by design. But I do find the rest of the article interesting and almost mirroring of articles written in the early 20th century as well as the late 1960's to the early 1970's.lets hope the arctic follows the pattern and ice grows to near record levels again in the next few years.
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Old 12-04-2018, 15:56   #373
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
I spent some time today calculating a coefficient of correlation between the mean sunspots per annum and the mean temperature anomaly per annum, from 2000 - 2016 , the range for which I have data.

r = -0.106226184

The scattergraph is attached.

Conclusion a very weak negative correlation
so you do admit there is a downward trend in temperature with diminishing sunspots .
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Old 12-04-2018, 16:15   #374
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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so you do admit there is a downward trend in temperature with diminishing sunspots .
You have that absolutely dead wrong.

There is no correlation with sunspots and temperatures. A perfect r =1.0.

A negative correlation would indicate that increasing sunspots would be accompanied by lower temperatures and that deceasing sunspot numbers would be accompanied by higher temperatures.

Therefore your assertion is bogus.

Have you ever taken a course in statistics?
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Old 12-04-2018, 16:15   #375
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Yup. Just can't trust those money-grubbing scientists and their unreliable models.

Stronger evidence for a weaker Atlantic overturning | PHYS.org

The Atlantic overturning—one of Earth's most important heat transport systems, pumping warm water northward and cold water southward—is weaker today than any time before in more than 1000 years. Sea surface temperature data analysis provides new evidence that this major ocean circulation has slowed down by roughly 15 percent since the middle of the 20th century, according to a study published in the highly renowned journal Nature by an international team of scientists. Human-made climate change is a prime suspect for these worrying observations.

"The specific trend pattern we found in measurements looks exactly like what is predicted by computer simulations as a result of a slowdown in the Gulf Stream System, and I see no other plausible explanation for it," says Rahmstorf. It is in fact not just the pattern in space that matches between computer simulation and observations, but also the change with the seasons.

"If we do not rapidly stop global warming, we must expect a further long-term slowdown of the Atlantic overturning. We are only beginning to understand the consequences of this unprecedented process—but they might be disruptive."


The Atlantic overturning circulation, also known as the Gulf Stream System, brings warm waters from the South to the North where it sinks into the deep and transports cold water from the North to the South. A weakening of this major ocean circulation can have widespread and potentially disruptive effects.
To quote:

"If we do not rapidly stop global warming...blah, blah, blah"


That may not be the writings of a money grubbing/grabbing scientist, but it sure is of one that ain't living in the same reality that the (most) rest of us are
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