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Old 28-03-2018, 11:50   #286
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by Erik de Jong View Post
Thee statistics are completely useless if you also don't mention the estimated open water percentage with all the graphs.
I know from personal experience that the area's of open water in 'ice covered' area's have at least doubled in surface area (more likely tripled), but you don't see that back in any of the graphs.

My personal estimate is that around 10-15% of the so called ice covered area in the winter is actually open water. That used to be less than 5%. On a total ice cover of 6.5x10^6 km2, that makes about 650.000 km2 in difference of actual ice cover.

Combine that with an average thickness loss of more than 50% and the amount of ice in the Arctic is devastatingly low.
doesn't look to bad to me on the thickness
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Old 28-03-2018, 11:54   #287
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

There used to be significantly more red than green in that picture.

Are you seriously saying that it isn't that bad with the ice situation up north?

Have you physically been in the Arctic and observed it with your own eyes?
I'm still quite Young, and I have seen a huge change over the last 25 years. I'm scared of how it will be in another 25 years from now and what for imbalance that will bring to the rest of the planet.
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Old 28-03-2018, 12:02   #288
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by Erik de Jong View Post
There used to be significantly more red than green in that picture.

Are you seriously saying that it isn't that bad with the ice situation up north?

Have you physically been in the Arctic and observed it with your own eyes?
I'm still quite Young, and I have seen a huge change over the last 25 years. I'm scared of how it will be in another 25 years from now and what for imbalance that will bring to the rest of the planet.
I'm not saying it's not bad but it is much better than in the recent past years.
Also I have to admit I have not been to the arctic ocean in winter in about 25 years. Hence the reason I stated I would love to read your ships logs concerning conditions observed in the last 20 or so years.
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Old 28-03-2018, 12:39   #289
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
nothing to do with Steve Goddard
This report is from the U.S. Department of energy
Please provide a link for this graph at the U.S. Department of energy.

The first two links on a Google image search result in:

Quote:
Pages that include matching images
Visualizing Government Arctic Sea Ice Fraud | The Deplorable Climate ...

https://realclimatescience.com/.../v...c-sea-ice-frau...
1697 1922 - Feb 15, 2017 - Government agencies like NOAA, NASA and NSIDC start their sea ice graphs in 1979, in order to make it look like there is a linear decline in sea ice. ftp://ftp.oar.noaa.gov/arctic/docume...report2016.pdf. NOAA claims they don't have satellite data before 1979, but they are lying.
More Stunning Arctic Sea Ice Fraud | The Deplorable Climate Science ...

https://realclimatescience.com/2016/...sea-ice-fraud/
500 480 - Nov 30, 2016 - We are used to seeing historical reconstructions like this one published in Nature, showing Arctic sea ice diminishing steadily since 1950. screen-shot-2016-11-30-at-3-12-. Reconstructed changes in Arctic sea ice over the past 1,450 years. This graph from Cryosphere Today shows the same thing.
realclimatescience.com is Tony Heller's (his real name) web site.

The rest of the hits are usual disinformation sites.
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Old 28-03-2018, 12:48   #290
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

It is not much better than in recent years, to the contrary. We managed to sail 350 miles into the Central Arctic Ocean last year, a place where small boats never sailed into, except Tara who nipped a corner of it a few years back.
10 years ago that would have been absolutely unthinkable.

If you want to go to the north pole by foot these days, you have to swim about 5-10% of the distance even in winter. That is how much open water we have now, open water that does not show on ice charts or ice extent graphs.

I will not publish my logbooks, as they contain personal information, financial information and other things that I don't feel appropriate to give to stranger, oh and they are handwritten and mostly in Dutch
Extracting the info is going to be several weeks of work that I might do at some point, but do not have the time for at this point.
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Old 28-03-2018, 13:05   #291
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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It is not much better than in recent years, to the contrary. We managed to sail 350 miles into the Central Arctic Ocean last year, a place where small boats never sailed into, except Tara who nipped a corner of it a few years back.
10 years ago that would have been absolutely unthinkable.

If you want to go to the north pole by foot these days, you have to swim about 5-10% of the distance even in winter. That is how much open water we have now, open water that does not show on ice charts or ice extent graphs.

I will not publish my logbooks, as they contain personal information, financial information and other things that I don't feel appropriate to give to stranger, oh and they are handwritten and mostly in Dutch
Extracting the info is going to be several weeks of work that I might do at some point, but do not have the time for at this point.
thank you for what you have been gracious enough to have provided to the discussion and if you ever do decide to release some more of your condition observations I would love to read them . I do understand the issue of personal info release I hate that as well.
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Old 28-03-2018, 13:10   #292
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Another interesting piece of reading about historical data and the Nimbus project.

https://www.theverge.com/2014/10/17/...tos-of-sea-ice
It is about sat. data from before 1979
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Old 28-03-2018, 13:22   #293
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

I smell a lot of blablabla...
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Old 28-03-2018, 13:22   #294
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by Erik de Jong View Post
Another interesting piece of reading about historical data and the Nimbus project.

https://www.theverge.com/2014/10/17/...tos-of-sea-ice
It is about sat. data from before 1979
Thanks for that.
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Old 28-03-2018, 13:29   #295
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik de Jong View Post
Another interesting piece of reading about historical data and the Nimbus project.

https://www.theverge.com/2014/10/17/...tos-of-sea-ice
It is about sat. data from before 1979
thank you for the link
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Old 28-03-2018, 16:54   #296
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Bering goes extreme

Bering goes extreme - Arctic Sea Ice
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Old 31-03-2018, 12:43   #297
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Seems NATO has decided to punch some holes in the ice with a major submarine exercise. Doesn't look that thick.

What we don't see is the Russki's who will be following.

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Old 31-03-2018, 13:45   #298
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Seems NATO has decided to punch some holes in the ice with a major submarine exercise. Doesn't look that thick.

What we don't see is the Russki's who will be following.


I'm looking for the article now but they had issues with ice that was to thick for the subs to penetrate. As was in the area they finally did conduct iced 2018 the ice was 2+ meters thick.
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Old 31-03-2018, 13:53   #299
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

The ice should be 4.5 to 5m thick around the pole. That is evidence that there is almost no multi year ice left anymore.
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Old 31-03-2018, 14:07   #300
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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The ice should be 4.5 to 5m thick around the pole. That is evidence that there is almost no multi year ice left anymore.
agreed and I have no idea what the exact ice thickness is at the pole .
This exercise is called icex 2018 they do it every year. In the beaufort sea . Not at the north pole.
http://navylive.dodlive.mil/2018/03/...8/icex-2018-4/
ICEX Weather, Ice Team Forecasts in Dynamic Arctic Environment
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