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Old 13-03-2018, 18:59   #196
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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jack just like what design of sailboat each of us likes so are our views on the climate. I do remember it being cold and I mean cold all over in the 1970's
Also I remember bro g taught about the heat of the 1930's both in school and from my parents and grandparents who all actually experienced it. But look at a temperature graph written within the last 10 years or so and neither exists anymore.
Lets see where we are in a year . And I'm out
The 1930's were warm in the US, not the rest of the globe.

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Old 13-03-2018, 19:09   #197
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
I meant peer-reviewed publications in reputable journals.
research a bit jack I can't give you everything that's not my job.
I just want to stimulate people to question things and look at it from a new prospective.
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Old 13-03-2018, 19:21   #198
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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No problem and I don't remember if I have or not so here is one of his webpages.
Suspicious0bservers Climate Change | Space Weather | Astronomy Your Mind is Your Weapon

here is another resource you may find I interesting
Discover the Sun!
Ben Davidson (note the name) has no PhD; a JD is a law degree. He is a not an astrophysicist, he is a lawyer.

About Ben Davidson – Suspicious0bservers – Climate Change | Space Weather | Astronomy

And you claim you are not naive.
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Old 13-03-2018, 19:22   #199
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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research a bit jack I can't give you everything that's not my job.
I just want to stimulate people to question things and look at it from a new prospective.
Ben has taken you in. I did my research on him. See above.
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Old 13-03-2018, 20:25   #200
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Without CO2, the earth wouldn't have any eukaryotic life, and probably no prokaryotic as well, because the entire surface would be frozen: the average temperature would be much above absolute zero, but still cold enough to freeze water, -18 C.

With too little CO2, the temp would be more like Mars, averaging -55C.

With much too much CO2, the temp would be more like Venus's 462C average. Venus's mostly CO2 surface atmospheric pressure is 92 times that of Earth; if I remember correctly that is almost 1/6th the density of water...

As for the sun being the driver of global warming, this is easily discounted by Mercury, which, even though it is almost twice as close to the Sun as Venus is, and hence receives about 75% more solar irradiation than Venus, has an average temperature of 'only' 220C, less than half that of Venus's CO2-driven 462C...


And what does this have to do with the NWP? Well, it disproves the silly, unfounded assertion that the sun is the driver of the recent global warming, and that the true cause of the continued and accelerating loss of sea ice there is primarily a result of the increased oceanic heat content, which is in turn caused by man's addition of CO2 to that already existing in the atmosphere.


As for the 'the vast majority of Canadian coastlines are currently frozen solid'

Solid

adjective

4. without openings or breaks:


Some local satellite pictures, with the name of the area illustrated and image dates...so no the only areas currently 'frozen solid' are certain parts of the interior Canadian Archipelago, and if you look closely at most of them here, https://worldview.earthdata.nasa.gov...614.1729724754 you'll see that in most places they're not 'solid' either...

Yeah, and I realized too late that 'straight' is supposed to be 'strait'...
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Old 13-03-2018, 21:25   #201
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by jimbunyard View Post
Without CO2, the earth wouldn't have any eukaryotic life, and probably no prokaryotic as well, because the entire surface would be frozen: the average temperature would be much above absolute zero, but still cold enough to freeze water, -18 C.

With too little CO2, the temp would be more like Mars, averaging -55C.

With much too much CO2, the temp would be more like Venus's 462C average. Venus's mostly CO2 surface atmospheric pressure is 92 times that of Earth; if I remember correctly that is almost 1/6th the density of water...

As for the sun being the driver of global warming, this is easily discounted by Mercury, which, even though it is almost twice as close to the Sun as Venus is, and hence receives about 75% more solar irradiation than Venus, has an average temperature of 'only' 220C, less than half that of Venus's CO2-driven 462C...


And what does this have to do with the NWP? Well, it disproves the silly, unfounded assertion that the sun is the driver of the recent global warming, and that the true cause of the continued and accelerating loss of sea ice there is primarily a result of the increased oceanic heat content, which is in turn caused by man's addition of CO2 to that already existing in the atmosphere.


As for the 'the vast majority of Canadian coastlines are currently frozen solid'

Solid

adjective

4. without openings or breaks:


Some local satellite pictures, with the name of the area illustrated and image dates...so no the only areas currently 'frozen solid' are certain parts of the interior Canadian Archipelago, and if you look closely at most of them here, https://worldview.earthdata.nasa.gov...614.1729724754 you'll see that in most places they're not 'solid' either...

Yeah, and I realized too late that 'straight' is supposed to be 'strait'...
ok if co2 is the primary driver as you assert by using the concentration on venus of 95% co2 to explain the heat then explain this . Mars co2 95% and a temperature average of 218 k?
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Old 13-03-2018, 21:28   #202
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Mans addition to the co2 concentration is = to .008% of the total atmosphere. The prime ghg is water vapor. You know like what comes out of the cooling towers of nuclear power plants
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Old 13-03-2018, 21:29   #203
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Total blow to the science community
Steven Hawking died today at age 76
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Old 13-03-2018, 21:43   #204
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Mans addition to the co2 concentration is = to .008% of the total atmosphere. The prime ghg is water vapor. You know like what comes out of the cooling towers of nuclear power plants
Using carbon isotope analysis, the 40% increase in atmospheric CO2 over the past 2.5 centuries is directly attributable to the burning of fossil fuels, a human activity . It is called the Suess effect. (Not the Dr. Suess you know and love.)

H2O is recognized by the IPCC as the dominant GHG.

CO2 is a non-condensing GHG; H2O is not. Yes, it makes a difference. CO2 is a driver; H2O is an amplifier.
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Old 13-03-2018, 21:46   #205
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Total blow to the science community
Steven Hawking died today at age 76
Absolutely.

Quote:
As cosmologist Stephen Hawking celebrates his 70th birthday he warns that climate change is one of a greatest threats posed to the future of human-kind and the world.
Stephen Hawking: climate disaster within 1000 years
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Old 13-03-2018, 21:48   #206
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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ok if co2 is the primary driver as you assert by using the concentration on venus of 95% co2 to explain the heat then explain this . Mars co2 95% and a temperature average of 218 k?
A little research shows:

Quote:
Mars is relatively small, having only about 10% the mass of the Earth. Mars has an atmosphere made up mostly of Carbon Dioxide but its pressure is only 1% of the Earth's atmospheric pressure. Thus Mars has 10,000 times less Carbon Dioxide in its atmosphere than Venus.
Venus and Mars
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Old 13-03-2018, 22:00   #207
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Without CO2, the earth wouldn't have any eukaryotic life, and probably no prokaryotic as well, because the entire surface would be frozen: the average temperature would be much above absolute zero, but still cold enough to freeze water, -18 C.
Yeah right. Water vapour has no greenhouse effect in your world.
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Old 14-03-2018, 01:19   #208
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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without the sun this planet would be very close to absolute 0k
OK,so you mean the sun provides energy.

That's very different to the implied "sole driver" of the heat content of our planet.
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Old 14-03-2018, 01:27   #209
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Mans addition to the co2 concentration is = to .008% of the total atmosphere. The prime ghg is water vapor. You know like what comes out of the cooling towers of nuclear power plants
Do you really believe increased greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere due to human activities have no part in the recent increase in the planets heat content? that's what is implied here.

If so that's not a view shared by science. The only real discussion is how much.
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Old 14-03-2018, 05:43   #210
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Yeah right. Water vapour has no greenhouse effect in your world.

Punch drunk yet?

The discussion was about CO2, not water vapor or methane or nitrous oxide or ozone or CFCs or HCFCs.

If there were no CO2 the earth would be a frozen desert planet (unlike Valentina Zharkova [and apparently others], I am aware that the term 'desert' is a function of rainfall, not temperature); the level of water vapor would probably be less than the 'tiny' level of CO2 present in the earth's atmosphere now...I know why, do you?

Which is an effective segue into an important point, often ignored (nefariously by some, ignorantly by others) about the effects of a material in a complex system, as regards potency or efficacy, cycle times, residence time in the system, etc.

Just for grins let's talk about 2 of the above criteria.

For potency, we'll bring up its' poster child (no, not Donald), polonium. LD50 for polonium by inhalation is 10 nanograms or 4 trillion times less by weight than the leathalee. So I hope it's clear (haha) that, while the relative volume of a substance is important, the properties of the substance can have an equal, or even greater, effect.

As for cycle time, when there's 'too much' water vapor it simply falls out of the sky, in an odd phenomenon called 'precipitation', taking from less than an afternoon to several days.

When there's 'too much' CO2, it's taken out by processes that take (for system-changing effects) hundreds to millions of years...
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