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Old 13-03-2018, 08:45   #166
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Sea water freezes at -1.8C. That is my context. Where is the water temperature lower enough to freeze?

The source I used employs both NOAA and in-situ temperatures.
Well England about a week ago. I was so shocked I took a photo of it.

As a child of the 1970s we were always taught there is an ice age coming.

Anything changed?

Pete
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Old 13-03-2018, 08:49   #167
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
Meanwhile the arctic is still well below the point for sea ice formation.
Where is the Arctic sea water temperature conducive to ice formation?
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Old 13-03-2018, 09:07   #168
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
Well England about a week ago. I was so shocked I took a photo of it.

As a child of the 1970s we were always taught there is an ice age coming.

Anything changed?

Pete
I suspect you were "educated" by someone who relied on the mainstream media. Science was 6:1 warming cooling in the 1970's.

https://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs...2008BAMS2370.1

The cold Arctic outbreaks due to the loss of Arctic sea ice were forecast 6 years.

https://www.wunderground.com/blog/Je...-patterns.html
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Old 13-03-2018, 10:33   #169
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Where is the Arctic sea water temperature conducive to ice formation?
I'm sure you will find somewhere within the arctic circle that the surface temperature is above -2℃ however find me a location in the arctic ocean that is above the freeze point of seawater.
https://earth.nullschool.net/#curren...-10.617,74.964
any point colder than that would be by definition conducive to ice formation.
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Old 13-03-2018, 10:36   #170
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Here is something " really new" ( by that I mean billions of years old..
The sun drives the whole planets the climate.
Prove me wrong.
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Old 13-03-2018, 10:51   #171
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
I'm sure you will find somewhere within the arctic circle that the surface temperature is above -2℃ however find me a location in the arctic ocean that is above the freeze point of seawater.
https://earth.nullschool.net/#curren...-10.617,74.964
any point colder than that would be by definition conducive to ice formation.
Your graphic is air temperatures, not water temperatures.

Meanwhile:

Pangnirtung 0C/32F (water temperature) -20C/-4F (air temperature)

https://seatemperature.info/pangnirt...mperature.html

Pangnirtung -1.7C/29F (water temperature) -18C/-0F (air temperature)

https://www.seatemperature.org/north...angnirtung.htm
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Old 13-03-2018, 10:56   #172
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
Here is something " really new" ( by that I mean billions of years old..
The sun drives the whole planets the climate.
Prove me wrong.
Solar scientists says you are wrong.

Quote:
During the initial discovery period of global climate change, the magnitude of the influence of the Sun on Earth's climate was not well understood. Since the early 1990s, however, extensive research was put into determining what role, if any, the Sun has in global warming or climate change.

A recent review paper, put together by both solar and climate scientists, details these studies: Solar Influences on Climate. Their bottom line: though the Sun may play some small role, "it is nevertheless much smaller than the estimated radiative forcing due to anthropogenic changes." That is, human activities are the primary factor in global climate change.


Global Warming -- Research Issues

Solar activity varies 0.2% - not enough to be significant.
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Old 13-03-2018, 11:03   #173
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
Here is something " really new" ( by that I mean billions of years old..
The sun drives the whole planets the climate.
Prove me wrong.
A more technical "proof".

If the sun was a driving force all of the atmosphere (the troposphere and and the stratosphere) would be warming / cooling in unison. They aren't.

Evidence of anthropogenic CO2 as a driving force of climate change.

Troposphere warming


Stratosphere cooling


Heat trapped by anthropogenic GHG's, i.e., CO2

BTW the tropopause is also increasing in altitude as a result.

BTW -predicted by

https://www.gfdl.noaa.gov/bibliograp...les/sm8001.pdf

All detected by satellites.
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Old 13-03-2018, 11:06   #174
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
Here is something " really new" ( by that I mean billions of years old..
The sun drives the whole planets the climate.
Prove me wrong.
Actually it was Milankovitch cycles that drive the long range climate changes such as ice ages.
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Old 13-03-2018, 11:38   #175
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
Here is something " really new" ( by that I mean billions of years old..
The sun drives the whole planets the climate.
Prove me wrong.
Could you define "drives" in this context?
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Old 13-03-2018, 11:45   #176
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by conachair View Post
Could you define "drives" in this context?
without the sun this planet would be very close to absolute 0k
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Old 13-03-2018, 11:46   #177
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Actually it was Milankovitch cycles that drive the long range climate changes such as ice ages.
and they are determined by our location in reference to the sun without which life wouldn't exist.
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Old 13-03-2018, 11:48   #178
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Your graphic is air temperatures, not water temperatures.

Meanwhile:

Pangnirtung 0C/32F (water temperature) -20C/-4F (air temperature)

https://seatemperature.info/pangnirt...mperature.html

Pangnirtung -1.7C/29F (water temperature) -18C/-0F (air temperature)

https://www.seatemperature.org/north...angnirtung.htm
Pangnirtung water temperature is actually-1.7℃
https://www.seatemperature.org/north...angnirtung.htm which I must agree is above the freezing temperature of sea water. ( by .2℃)
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Old 13-03-2018, 11:59   #179
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Solar scientists says you are wrong.





Global Warming -- Research Issues

Solar activity varies 0.2% - not enough to be significant.
ok here is a question for you list the last 5 warmest years by warmest to coolest.
( no not trick question )
rate from 1 to 5 with the warmest first.
( it will make sense )
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Old 13-03-2018, 12:15   #180
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Re: Northwest Passage - 2018

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Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
ok here is a question for you list the last 5 warmest years by warmest to coolest.
( no not trick question )
rate from 1 to 5 with the warmest first.
( it will make sense )
here is picture for you




https://public.wmo.int/en/media/pres...t-years-record
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