Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Ahhhh...sorry Dave, that's not now a Representative Democracy works my friends. If you can't convince the Voters, then it what YOU think and believe that frankly doesn't matter. See in a Representative Democracy the smarter than us folks don't get to make laws that govern and control us. Oh, I know this irritates those like Obama who just goes around the laws, but if you want a solution to what you believe is MMGW...then my friend, you had better start treating us dumb voters with a little more respect because without us...nothing is going to happen! We don't live in a Dictatorship....well yet anyway....

I make no comments as to what governments or the electorate DO as a result of scientific information. The evidence of the ill effects of smoking have been settled for 20 years, yet we still see reluctance to control it.

Climate change is a serious scientific study, one that has many many academics and respected institutions involved.


The ordinary Joe Public simply get mislead by headlines,.


Consider a few posts ago, This link was posted in an attempt to debunk warming Antarctic Sea Ice Reaches New Record Maximum | NASA

possibly because of its title.

However if you read the article , you will come across this statement

"“The planet as a whole is doing what was expected in terms of warming. Sea ice as a whole is decreasing as expected, but just like with global warming, not every location with sea ice will have a downward trend in ice extent,” Parkinson said"

from ". Claire Parkinson, a senior scientist at NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center"

its not a case of what you " believe", its a case of what the science says. As to what societies and their voters do about it , thats entirely different, Most communities dont act till the water comes in the front door anyway.

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Sorry unless you possess the qualifications in advanced maths and have studied the peer reviewed science can you make any statement about what you BELEIVE .

If however you have either spoken to acknowledged experts in the field or have read extensively the peer reviewed science, then I will except what you say.

The funny thing is that the serious scientific community have agreed that global climate change is occurring faster as a result of man made influences ( note not just warming but " change " )

What is now being investigated and debated is the accuracy of the models and their predictions.

This stuff simply isn't accessible to ordinary people. Hence most get their from simplistic non science biased opinion formers.

Reading on some right wing blog written by a non science person isn't the same as reviewing the subject scientifically.

As I said , deniers are like smokers 20 years ago.

Dave


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

Actually, I have studied more "maths" than is necessary to study almost anything. But unfortunately, there's a LOT more to this than merely understanding advanced math so that's not much help.

It's funny that you admit that the models are being debated for accuracy, which is about the same as admitting that thus far they haven't been accurate at all. And yet, you remain confident that what they incorrectly predicted in the past is somehow true? I suppose that your wish is bound to come true eventually because even a broken clock is right twice a day so many someday the IPCC will make a prediction that turns out to be spot on, but I'm not holding my breath.

As you say, the raw data isn't available to ordinary people, so do you include yourself in that or are you a noted climate scientist? If you're not, then where did YOU get YOUR simplistic views, a LEFT wing blog? BTW, I couldn't tell you a single "right wing blog" and to my knowledge I have never logged on to one. I'm also not a climate scientist but I do have a degree in engineering so I think I'm more capable than most journalists or politicians in seeing through bogus claims and making up my own mind about pseudo-scientific claims, no matter how well publicized they may be. .

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Ha ha ha...using Snopes to prove an argument...my dear Canadian friend, it is you who have been suckered...might as well link to MoveOn.org for "the truth". I love you...but it's time to give up or convince the voters...you know...those evil Tea Party guys/gals that won the House/Senate in 2014....ha ha...good luck with that.

Show me where he made the claim.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by jackdale

Show me where he made the claim.

Ask my brother and you will receive and Amigo, if you are this clueless on what Al Gore did or didn't say that took me 0.0156 secs on Google to find, then you have just lost all credibility on your discernment about MMGW...

"During my time in the US Congress, I took the Initiative that Created the Internet"...ha ha ha...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnFJ8cHAlco

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Ha ha ha...using Snopes to prove an argument

Let's see what two of the guys who did much to develop the Internet have to say on the topic.

Robert Elliot "Bob" Kahn is an American electrical engineer, who, along with Vint Cerf, invented the Transmission Control Protocol (TCP) and the Internet Protocol (IP), the fundamental communication protocols at the heart of the Internet.

Net builders Kahn, Cerf recognise Al Gore
Track this topic Print story
Grateful for the inventor's genius
By Thomas C Greene in Washington DC • Get more from this author

Posted in Music and Media, 2nd October 2000 16:19 GMT
We received the following essay by Internet engineering wizzards Robert Kahn and Vinton Cerf last night courtesy of the Politech mailing list. While it reads somewhat like a PR blurb, it's also a fair backgrounder on Democratic presidential hopeful Al Gore's legislative contributions to the Net. It's reproduced below, unedited and uncut.

Al Gore and the Internet
By Robert Kahn and Vinton Cerf

Al Gore was the first political leader to recognize the importance of the Internet and to promote and support its development.

No one person or even small group of persons exclusively "invented" the Internet. It is the result of many years of ongoing collaboration among people in government and the university community. But as the two people who designed the basic architecture and the core protocols that make the Internet work, we would like to acknowledge VP Gore's contributions as a Congressman, Senator and as Vice President. No other elected official, to our knowledge, has made a greater contribution over a longer period of time.

Last year the Vice President made a straightforward statement on his role. He said: "During my service in the United States Congress I took the initiative in creating the Internet." We don't think, as some people have argued, that Gore intended to claim he "invented" the Internet. Moreover, there is no question in our minds that while serving as Senator, Gore's initiatives had a significant and beneficial effect on the still-evolving Internet. The fact of the matter is that Gore was talking about and promoting the Internet long before most people were listening. We feel it is timely to offer our perspective.

As far back as the 1970s Congressman Gore promoted the idea of high speed telecommunications as an engine for both economic growth and the improvement of our educational system. He was the first elected official to grasp the potential of computer communications to have a broader impact than just improving the conduct of science and scholarship. Though easily forgotten now, at the time this was an unproven and controversial concept. Our work on the Internet started in 1973 and was based on even earlier work that took place in the mid-late 1960s. But the Internet, as we know it today, was not deployed until 1983. When the Internet was still in the early stages of its deployment, Congressman Gore provided intellectual leadership by helping create the vision of the potential benefits of high speed computing and communication. As an example, he sponsored hearings on how advanced technologies might be put to use in areas like coordinating the response of government agencies to natural disasters and other crises.

As a Senator in the 1980s Gore urged government agencies to consolidate what at the time were several dozen different and unconnected networks into an "Interagency Network." Working in a bi-partisan manner with officials in Ronald Reagan and George Bush's administrations, Gore secured the passage of the High Performance Computing and Communications Act in 1991. This "Gore Act" supported the National Research and Education Network (NREN) initiative that became one of the major vehicles for the spread of the Internet beyond the field of computer science.

As Vice President Gore promoted building the Internet both up and out, as well as releasing the Internet from the control of the government agencies that spawned it. He served as the major administration proponent for continued investment in advanced computing and networking and private sector initiatives such as Net Day. He was and is a strong proponent of extending access to the network to schools and libraries. Today, approximately 95% of our nation's schools are on the Internet. Gore provided much-needed political support for the speedy privatization of the Internet when the time arrived for it to become a commercially-driven operation.

There are many factors that have contributed to the Internet's rapid growth since the later 1980s, not the least of which has been political support for its privatization and continued support for research in advanced networking technology. No one in public life has been more intellectually engaged in helping to create the climate for a thriving Internet than the Vice President. Gore has been a clear champion of this effort, both in the councils of government and with the public at large.

The Vice President deserves credit for his early recognition of the value of high speed computing and communication and for his long-term and consistent articulation of the potential value of the Internet to American citizens and industry and, indeed, to the rest of the world.

http://web.archive.org/web/200809190...erf_recognise/

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Ask my brother and you will receive and Amigo, if you are this clueless on what Al Gore did or didn't say that took me 0.0156 secs on Google to find, then you have just lost all credibility on your discernment about MMGW...

"During my time in the US Congress, I took the Initiative that Created the Internet"...ha ha ha...

Without Gore it would still be ARPANet, in the hands of the military and universities.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

Actually, I have studied more "maths" than is necessary to study almost anything. But unfortunately, there's a LOT more to this than merely understanding advanced math so that's not much help.

It's funny that you admit that the models are being debated for accuracy, which is about the same as admitting that thus far they haven't been accurate at all. And yet, you remain confident that what they incorrectly predicted in the past is somehow true? I suppose that your wish is bound to come true eventually because even a broken clock is right twice a day so many someday the IPCC will make a prediction that turns out to be spot on, but I'm not holding my breath.

As you say, the raw data isn't available to ordinary people, so do you include yourself in that or are you a noted climate scientist? If you're not, then where did YOU get YOUR simplistic views, a LEFT wing blog? BTW, I couldn't tell you a single "right wing blog" and to my knowledge I have never logged on to one. I'm also not a climate scientist but I do have a degree in engineering so I think I'm more capable than most journalists or politicians in seeing through bogus claims and making up my own mind about pseudo-scientific claims, no matter how well publicized they may be. .

Like you Im an engineer and have studied more maths then I would like. I do have the advantage of having a childhood friend who is an acknowledged peer in this area.

What I mean about models ( and all climate change is about the accuracy of models, since we cannot examine the future only predict it ) , is that all models now show a consistent effect , that is increased climate change rate. i.e. things are changing faster then before. Thats combined with correlated data indicates that such rate of change is a function of modern mans activities.

what is still an area of dispute is the range of effects that will occur. because the future climate is based on models and such models are based on various complex mathematics , there exists a range of such outcomes, ranging from relatively benign to more radical.

Humans beings always deny bad news, few believed WW2 would occur so quickly after the " war to end all wars " etc. Equally humans deny anything that doesn't affect them directly, until of course it does and then they all scream an holler like crazy.

whats even more bizarre is groups of people denying the process , because it might be " anti-business" or result in them not being able to buy the next mod com.

It behoves prudent Governments to lead the change in consumption patterns to help assuage some of the issues, if it turns out the changes and results are minor, they we have just wasted a bit of effort and money thats all. If we are right, then we have in some way prepared ourselves for that change.

I see no upside to denying its occurring

[LekiM]

https://i.imgur.com/XUzAIje.webm

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

Who really cares? It's just so much fun to watch his acolytes bang their heads against brick walls, thanks for the visual! But even his claim that he "created" the Internet is pretty arrogant and self serving, which pretty much summarizes the man himself, thus the ongoing stereotype.

Read: "Who really cares? It's just so much fun to knowingly spread false information. A lie in the service of my position is no vice."

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Like you Im an engineer and have studied more maths then I would like. I do have the advantage of having a childhood friend who is an acknowledged peer in this area.

What I mean about models ( and all climate change is about the accuracy of models, since we cannot examine the future only predict it ) , is that all models now show a consistent effect , that is increased climate change rate. i.e. things are changing faster then before. Thats combined with correlated data indicates that such rate of change is a function of modern mans activities.

what is still an area of dispute is the range of effects that will occur. because the future climate is based on models and such models are based on various complex mathematics , there exists a range of such outcomes, ranging from relatively benign to more radical.

Humans beings always deny bad news, few believed WW2 would occur so quickly after the " war to end all wars " etc. Equally humans deny anything that doesn't affect them directly, until of course it does and then they all scream an holler like crazy.

whats even more bizarre is groups of people denying the process , because it might be " anti-business" or result in them not being able to buy the next mod com.

It behoves prudent Governments to lead the change in consumption patterns to help assuage some of the issues, if it turns out the changes and results are minor, they we have just wasted a bit of effort and money thats all. If we are right, then we have in some way prepared ourselves for that change.

I see no upside to denying its occurring

well said.

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Ask my brother and you will receive and Amigo, if you are this clueless on what Al Gore did or didn't say that took me 0.0156 secs on Google to find, then you have just lost all credibility on your discernment about MMGW...

"During my time in the US Congress, I took the Initiative that Created the Internet"...ha ha ha...

You seem to have a pathological problem with understanding nuance. In what is "I took the initiative that created" (which is true, btw) the same as "I created"?

English is your first language, no?

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by sneuman

Read: "Who really cares? It's just so much fun to knowingly spread false information to bolster my point of view. The truth doesn't matter."

Actually, quite the opposite. He DID say he "created" the Internet so isn't it misleading people to simply say that it's false to say that he claimed to have "invented" it without explaining what he did say? Doesn't "invent" and "create" mean pretty close to the same thing? The one spreading false information is he who insists that Al Gore said no such thing, when he DID! Of course Al isn't the first pol to greatly overestimate his own importance, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't make fun of this particular pol when he gets caught saying something as absurd as that he "created" the internet, making it sound like he did it singlehanded rather than being one vote on a committee in congress that had some say over it.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

Actually, quite the opposite. He DID say he "created" the Internet

From two guys who did create the Internet Protocol.

Last year the Vice President made a straightforward statement on his role. He said: "During my service in the United States Congress I took the initiative in creating the Internet." We don't think, as some people have argued, that Gore intended to claim he "invented" the Internet. Moreover, there is no question in our minds that while serving as Senator, Gore's initiatives had a significant and beneficial effect on the still-evolving Internet. The fact of the matter is that Gore was talking about and promoting the Internet long before most people were listening. We feel it is timely to offer our perspective.

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

Actually, quite the opposite. He DID say he "created" the Internet so isn't it misleading people to simply say that it's false to say that he claimed to have "invented" it without explaining what he did say? Doesn't "invent" and "create" mean pretty close to the same thing? The one spreading false information is he who insists that Al Gore said no such thing, when he DID! Of course Al isn't the first pol to greatly overestimate his own importance, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't make fun of this particular pol when he gets caught saying something as absurd as that he "created" the internet, making it sound like he did it singlehanded rather than being one vote on a committee in congress that had some say over it.

No, he ACTUALLY did sponsor legislation that turned the military ARPANET into a publicly accessible Internet. See: http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/200...internet/?_r=0

So, it was perfectly accurate for him to say that he "took the initiative" to "create" the Internet. That's the point. By taking his remarks out of context and then noodling them to "I invented the Internet," right-wingers who didn't like him anyway have simply been telling an untruth.

This is not difficult to check ... IF you want truth.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Maybe he created the Carbon Credit Scam also.....