Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 20-04-2015, 04:31   #1411
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwcolby54 View Post
LOL.

I am simply pointing out that denying something doesn't make it false. Believing in something doesn't make it true. Reality is and what we believe has no impact on that unless we act on our beliefs, whereupon we make a positive impact (cleaning up pollution for example) or a negative impact (polluting even more).

Therefore, if human caused climate change is real, denying it is only making matters worse because we are refusing to try and make a positive change.

Believing in it cannot make it worse.

Hmmmm...

And I am also pointing out that if it is real, then the results will not be good for billions of people.

Not that any of that argument will change anyone's mind. There are many reasons for denying human caused climate change. Most of them emotional or economic, and of course, political. All three of those things are immune to reason.
well said. Eventually
__________________

__________________
Rustic Charm is offline  
Old 20-04-2015, 05:26   #1412
Registered User
 
SailOar's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 629
Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

jwcolby54
Welcome to CruisersForum (and the Great Climate Debate).

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwcolby54 View Post
People believe what they want to believe.

Sadly, if (human caused) global warming is true, believing it is not will not change reality. I say fire up the coal fired power plants and let's test the theory. If it is true, the world dies and a few billion of us with it. If it is false, we can all move on to something else to discuss.

Luckily, my boat will float a little higher when the last ice cap slides off into the ocean. And I can sail in and pillage the half submerged gun stores on the piedmont of NC.

A few billion less people, less strain on the old planet. How can this be a bad thing? Hey, Miami will be underwater, likewise NYC. All good I say.
__________________

__________________
SailOar is offline  
Old 20-04-2015, 06:06   #1413
Registered User
 
SailOar's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 629
Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dauntlessny View Post
This is the point that I start having exceptions with the Global Warming crowd also.

That graph is simplified, but essentially accurate. Now what does that mean?

You imply it's bad that our temperature would rise to the level of 4 millions years ago.

But let's take that a step further. Would would rather have temperatures of 4 million years ago or 100,000 years ago?
Neither. Either extreme would be extremely disruptive to civilization as we now know it. But as a human race we would survive either way.

Quote:
AND then once you (we, the world) decide on that answer, then the BIG issue is whether we in all our human hubris can actually do anything about it.
By burning gigatons of fossil fuels over the last few centuries we've already done something about it. The question is not whether we have, or can, do something about it. The question is whether we are far-sighted and self-disciplined enough to do something about it?

Quote:
Look at where most of the world's grain is grown. Another Ice Age would cause starvations on a scale never seen before.
Agreed, at least if it happened quickly. But the natural changes in climate are typically quite slow relative to human lifespans, so natural attrition would relatively painlessly contract the human population while it migrated to the warmer mid and low latitudes. Furthermore, the cooling climate would increase the thickness of the polar and continental icecaps, so ocean levels would drop. Thus the huge coastal population centers would not be threatened by flooding.

On the other hand, if Global Warming continues apace at the breakneck speed as predicted if humans don't make major fuel changes, it will be much harder for current civilization to adapt without major disruptions.

The large urban coastal populations are going to suffer increased flooding.

Agriculture will be stressed by atypical droughts/floods/heatwaves.

Decreased pH levels in the oceans will erode (are eroding) corals and mollusc shells. This will adversely effect the whole ocean food chain.

Many other ecosystems will be stressed because they can't adapt fast enough.

The question is not whether we, or the Earth as a whole, can adapt. We certainly can adapt to higher temperatures. The question is whether the cost of adaptation is more or less expensive than the cost to reduce the changes we are causing to the climate in the first place.
__________________
SailOar is offline  
Old 20-04-2015, 14:50   #1414
Senior Cruiser
 
jackdale's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 5,040
Images: 1
Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dauntlessny View Post

But let's take that a step further. Would would rather have temperatures of 4 million years ago or 100,000 years ago?

I do not think it is an "either / or" question?

Quote:
The last time atmospheric CO2 was at 400 parts per million was during the ancient Pliocene Era, three to five million years ago, and humans didnít exist.
  • Global average temperatures were 3 to 4 degrees C warmer than today (5.4 to 7.2 degrees F).
  • Polar temperatures were as much as 10 degrees C warmer than today (18 degrees F).
  • The Arctic was ice free.
  • Sea level was between five and 40 meters higher (16 to 130 feet) than today.
  • Coral reefs suffered mass die-offs.
The Last Time Atmospheric CO2 was at 400 parts per million Humans Didn’t Exist – Significant Figures by Peter Gleick

The MWP resulted in wide spread droughts.
__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Ocean Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203,204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
jackdale is offline  
Old 20-04-2015, 15:00   #1415
Marine Service Provider
 
SV THIRD DAY's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: La Paz, Mexico
Boat: 1978 Hudson Force 50 Ketch
Posts: 3,653
Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways


So...you just proved the point that 400ppm isn't a big deal...halarious....it was 400ppm back before humans were here....it is 400ppm now and so what...nada, no significant warming in the last 18yrs...ha ha ha classic....

How much are you getting paid to recruit MMGW Cult members?
__________________
Rich Boren Goodbye Morro Bay...Hello La Paz, Mexico and the owner of:
Cruise RO Water High Output Water
Technautic CoolBlue Refrigeration
SV THIRD DAY is offline  
Old 20-04-2015, 15:14   #1416
Registered User
 
Reefmagnet's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: puɐןsuǝǝnb 'ʎɐʞɔɐɯ
Boat: Nantucket Island 33
Posts: 2,735
Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
I do not think it is an "either / or" question?



The Last Time Atmospheric CO2 was at 400 parts per million Humans Didnít Exist Ė Significant Figures by Peter Gleick

The MWP resulted in wide spread droughts.
And temps were higher, especially at the poles and sea levels were higher.

The last time atmospheric CO2 was at 400 parts per million was during the ancient Pliocene Era, three to five million years ago, and humans didnít exist.

Quote:
Global average temperatures were 3 to 4 degrees C warmer than today (5.4 to 7.2 degrees F).
Polar temperatures were as much as 10 degrees C warmer than today (18 degrees F).
The Arctic was ice free.
Sea level was between five and 40 meters higher (16 to 130 feet) than today.
Coral reefs suffered mass die-offs.
Guess that throws the whole CO2 link to global temperatures baby out with the bathwater, doesn't it?

Oh wait, that era probably didn't have aerosols or a hole in the ozone layer or something else no doubt.
__________________
Reefmagnet is offline  
Old 20-04-2015, 15:18   #1417
Marine Service Provider
 
SV THIRD DAY's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: La Paz, Mexico
Boat: 1978 Hudson Force 50 Ketch
Posts: 3,653
Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
Oh wait, that era probably didn't have aerosols or a hole in the ozone layer or something else no doubt.
This isn't a Science issue...it is a Social Feel Good Save the baby Fur seal issue, so talking logic to love or belief doesn't matter. Just gently tell them to get out of our way, sit on the sidelines and cry that the sky is falling while we ignore them and go about living our lives. Until they can vote and elect the House, Senate and President....their crack pot junk science is irrelevant, the child locks are on their car door, so they can't hurt themselves or us that much, other than from laughter.
__________________
Rich Boren Goodbye Morro Bay...Hello La Paz, Mexico and the owner of:
Cruise RO Water High Output Water
Technautic CoolBlue Refrigeration
SV THIRD DAY is offline  
Old 20-04-2015, 15:28   #1418
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
This isn't a Science issue...it is a Social Feel Good Save the baby Fur seal issue, so talking logic to love or belief doesn't matter. Just gently tell them to get out of our way, sit on the sidelines and cry that the sky is falling while we ignore them and go about living our lives. Until they can vote and elect the House, Senate and President....their crack pot junk science is irrelevant, the child locks are on their car door, so they can't hurt themselves or us that much, other than from laughter.
I'm starting to think you have some sort of pathological need to react like this? Your clearly an intelligent person in other posts but something about Climate and you react like someone once took your ice cream away on a hot day and blamed it in being too hot to have one and ever since you have blamed it on the weather. your clearly the 'fringe' (very small minority) in your beliefs, I don't get your need to be quite offensive in your reactions.

Ps. I'm just interested in seeing this thread pass the 100 pages. Only another four to go
__________________
Rustic Charm is offline  
Old 20-04-2015, 15:34   #1419
Marine Service Provider
 
SV THIRD DAY's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: La Paz, Mexico
Boat: 1978 Hudson Force 50 Ketch
Posts: 3,653
Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
Ps. I'm just interested in seeing this thread pass the 100 pages. Only another four to go
Just doing my part Amigo...
No one likes a truth teller these days...you either tow the party line or are attacked...bring on the arrows baby. I wear them well.
__________________
Rich Boren Goodbye Morro Bay...Hello La Paz, Mexico and the owner of:
Cruise RO Water High Output Water
Technautic CoolBlue Refrigeration
SV THIRD DAY is offline  
Old 20-04-2015, 15:39   #1420
Registered User
 
Reefmagnet's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: puɐןsuǝǝnb 'ʎɐʞɔɐɯ
Boat: Nantucket Island 33
Posts: 2,735
Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Quote:
Originally Posted by SailOar View Post
On the other hand, if Global Warming continues apace at the breakneck speed as predicted if humans don't make major fuel changes, it will be much harder for current civilization to adapt without major disruptions.
Assumption?


Quote:
The large urban coastal populations are going to suffer increased flooding.
After 25 years that's still to occur. Anywhere. Assumption?

Quote:
Agriculture will be stressed by atypical droughts/floods/heatwaves.
Assumption?

Quote:
Decreased pH levels in the oceans will erode (are eroding) corals and mollusc shells. This will adversely effect the whole ocean food chain.
Ocean PH has dropped by a value of 0.05. Try adjusting your swimming pool PH to this resolution. The ONE recorded instance is pteropods off the west coast of the USA (which might explain your missing herrings ). It's not classified information that shell fish lived during times of significantly higher atmospheric CO2 levels. How do you think they survived (and rate of change is not an answer)? Again an assumption.

Quote:
Many other ecosystems will be stressed because they can't adapt fast enough.
What is fast enough, exactly? Or is this yet another assumption?

Quote:
The question is not whether we, or the Earth as a whole, can adapt. We certainly can adapt to higher temperatures. The question is whether the cost of adaptation is more or less expensive than the cost to reduce the changes we are causing to the climate in the first place.
No. The proper question is what other, more immediate, major problems face the world and it's people and which solutions have the better ROI.

You alarmists care about 0.6 degrees celcius and 0.05 ph but care little of other problems facing humanity that are real NOW and require far more immediate solutions.
__________________
Reefmagnet is offline  
Old 20-04-2015, 15:41   #1421
Registered User
 
Reefmagnet's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: puɐןsuǝǝnb 'ʎɐʞɔɐɯ
Boat: Nantucket Island 33
Posts: 2,735
Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
This isn't a Science issue...it is a Social Feel Good Save the baby Fur seal issue, so talking logic to love or belief doesn't matter. Just gently tell them to get out of our way, sit on the sidelines and cry that the sky is falling while we ignore them and go about living our lives. Until they can vote and elect the House, Senate and President....their crack pot junk science is irrelevant, the child locks are on their car door, so they can't hurt themselves or us that much, other than from laughter.
__________________
Reefmagnet is offline  
Old 20-04-2015, 16:03   #1422
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Toronto
Boat: Sandpiper 565
Posts: 2,942
Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
No one likes a truth teller these day
Yeah. We noticed.

__________________
Lake-Effect is offline  
Old 20-04-2015, 16:03   #1423
Senior Cruiser
 
jackdale's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 5,040
Images: 1
Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
And temps were higher, especially at the poles and sea levels were higher.

The last time atmospheric CO2 was at 400 parts per million was during the ancient Pliocene Era, three to five million years ago, and humans didnít exist.



Guess that throws the whole CO2 link to global temperatures baby out with the bathwater, doesn't it?

Oh wait, that era probably didn't have aerosols or a hole in the ozone layer or something else no doubt.
Nope.

Milankovitch cycles trigger a temperature increase, warming the oceans, releasing CO2 which stimulates a positive feedback loop increasing temperatures and CO2. That cycle as been operating for at least 800,000 years. Then we started adding CO2 all on our own by burning sequestered fossil fuels.
__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Ocean Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203,204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
jackdale is offline  
Old 20-04-2015, 16:05   #1424
Marine Service Provider
 
SV THIRD DAY's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: La Paz, Mexico
Boat: 1978 Hudson Force 50 Ketch
Posts: 3,653
Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
Yeah. We noticed.

Notice if you will....
na, Never mind, lets just get this post to 100 pages and then it can end.

I'm living off the Grid and my carbon footprint is lower than yours, so I'm a better person than you....
__________________
Rich Boren Goodbye Morro Bay...Hello La Paz, Mexico and the owner of:
Cruise RO Water High Output Water
Technautic CoolBlue Refrigeration
SV THIRD DAY is offline  
Old 20-04-2015, 16:26   #1425
Registered User
 
Reefmagnet's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: puɐןsuǝǝnb 'ʎɐʞɔɐɯ
Boat: Nantucket Island 33
Posts: 2,735
Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Nope.

Milankovitch cycles trigger a temperature increase, warming the oceans, releasing CO2 which stimulates a positive feedback loop increasing temperatures and CO2. That cycle as been operating for at least 800,000 years. Then we started adding CO2 all on our own by burning sequestered fossil fuels.
Yep, saw that coming. Funny how nothing but the "A" in AGW applies today, ain't it?

Sent from my SGP521 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________

__________________
Reefmagnet is offline  
Closed Thread

Tags
arc, water

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Experts: Global warming behind 2005 hurricanes CaptainK Atlantic & the Caribbean 0 25-04-2006 22:42
Scientists blame sun for global warming CaptainK Polar Regions 17 17-04-2006 11:25
Public service ads aim to raise awareness about global warming CaptainK Polar Regions 11 26-03-2006 13:52
Pacific islanders move to escape global warming CaptainK Pacific & South China Sea 36 17-01-2006 00:30
New source of global warming gas found: plants CaptainK Pacific & South China Sea 6 16-01-2006 00:02



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:34.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.