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Old 09-04-2015, 11:29   #1201
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
Since that's your answer to: Exactly what havoc are we wreaking?
I'm guessing you've come up with zip, nada, null, zero, nought, nuttin' on that one.
Some Canadian havoc for you.

A cut and paste of Table 1 to save you the trouble.

Climate System Element Observed Trends
Temperature
Annual air temperature –
Canada
The annual average surface air temperature over the Canadian landmass has warmed by 1.5°C over the period
1950-2010
Temperature Extremes
Hot extremes – Canada The frequency of warm days (when the daily maximum temperature is above the daily 90th percentile) during the
summer has increased nationally since 1950
Cold extremes – Canada The frequency of cold nights (when the daily minimum temperature is below the daily 10th percentile) during the
winter has decreased nationally since 1950
Precipitation and other hydrological indicators
Annual precipitation – Canada Canada has generally become wetter in recent decades, as indicated by the increasing trend in annual average
precipitation
Snowfall/Rainfall – Southern
Canada
In several regions of southern Canada, there has been a shift in precipitation type, with decreasing snowfall and
increasing rainfall
Streamflow – Canada Observations suggest decreasing trends in maximum and minimum river flows over the period 1970-2005 in much
of southern Canada, with increases in minimum flows in western Nunavut, Northwest Territories, Yukon and northern
British Columbia
Snowfall – Canada Annual snowfall has declined over most of southern Canada and increased in the north over the last 6 decades
Snow cover – Canada Negative trends in snow cover extent have been observed during spring over the Canadian landmass, with largest
declines observed in June
Permafrost
Ground temperature – Canada Permafrost temperatures at numerous borehole sites across Canada have increased over the past two to three decades
Sea Level
Sea level – Global Global average sea level rose about 21 cm between 1880 and 2012 at an average rate of 1.6 mm/year
Relative sea level – Canada Relative sea level rise of over 3 mm/year has been observed on coastlines of Atlantic Canada and the Beaufort Sea
coast, with lower amounts along Pacific coastlines. Relative sea level fall of 10 mm/year has been observed around
Hudson Bay where the land is rising rapidly due to post-glacial rebound
Sea Ice
Seasonal ice extent – Arctic End-of-summer minimum ice extent has declined at a rate of 13% per decade over 1979-2012, while maximum winter
sea ice extent has declined at a rate of 2.6% per decade
Ice Type – Arctic A shift in ice cover from one dominated by thick multi-year ice (MYI) to one increasingly dominated by thin first-year
ice (FYI) has been observed
Eastern Canada Declines in winter sea ice extent have been observed in the Labrador-Newfoundland and Gulf of St. Lawrence region
Glaciers
Glacier mass – Yukon, British
Columbia, Alberta
Western Cordilleran glaciers are losing mass and shrinking rapidly to the smallest extents in several millennia.
Glaciers in British Columbia and Alberta have lost, respectively, about 11% and 25% of their surface area over the
period 1985-2005, while glaciers in Yukon have lost about 22% since the 1950s
Glacier mass – High Arctic Significant negative mass balances are evident from the early 1960s into the first decade of the 21st century. The
rate of mass loss for glaciers throughout the High Arctic has increased sharply since 2005, in direct response to warm
regional summer temperatures
Lake and River Ice
Spring ice thaw – Canada Trends towards earlier ice-free dates (lakes) and ice break-up dates (rivers) have been observed for most of the country
since the mid-20th century but are particularly evident in Western Canada
Ocean Climate
Canada’s oceans Long-term changes in ocean temperature (increasing), salinity (variable sign), and acidity (increasing) have been
observed in all three of Canada’s oceans. Long-term decreases in subsurface dissolved oxygen levels have also been
observed in the Atlantic and Pacific oceans off Canada
TABLE 1: Examples of observed changes in Canada (from Chapter 2). The length of the observational record varies with the indicator.
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Old 09-04-2015, 11:31   #1202
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Your really need to provide evidence for your assertion.

"Something" is rather vague.

"somewhere" is rather vague.
vague has defined his argumentative style since the beginning of the thread. Why should he change now?
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Old 09-04-2015, 11:35   #1203
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

A couple of very interesting links, IMHO...




Are human influences on the climate really small? | Climate Etc.

http://cusp.nyu.edu/wp-content/uploa...annotated1.pdf
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Old 09-04-2015, 11:42   #1204
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Originally Posted by Tensen View Post
What statement have I made a number of times?

I certainly haven't made a statement about correlation between surface and atmospheric temperatures, so don't ask me to provide evidence for it.

If you are asserting that there is no correlation (are you? I don't know) then it's up to you to provide the evidence. We've been over burden of proof already.
I don't really care. It's not the models that I hold dear that are wrong. They predicted this stuff, not me.

Out of interest, how do you think greenhouse gasses increase surface temps?
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Old 09-04-2015, 11:46   #1205
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
I don't really care. It's not the models that I hold dear that are wrong. They predicted this stuff, not me.
I honestly don't even know what it is you don't care about...

Quote:
Out of interest, how do you think greenhouse gasses increase surface temps?
To answer, allow me to share a link with you that someone posted on page 78: Carbon Planet - The Greenhouse Effect

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Old 09-04-2015, 11:47   #1206
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tensen View Post
I honestly don't even know what it is you don't care about...



To answer, allow me to share a link with you that someone posted on page 78: Carbon Planet - The Greenhouse Effect

Is that peer reviewed? And links aren't telling me what you think. Telling me what you think is telling me what you think.
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Old 09-04-2015, 11:48   #1207
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
Since that's your answer to: Exactly what havoc are we wreaking?
I'm guessing you've come up with zip, nada, null, zero, nought, nuttin' on that one.
I've made a number of posts meant to address your question. You haven't responded to them, so perhaps I don't have the correct avatar for you?

Rising sea levels will cost trillions of dollars to deal with. Both developing countries, like Bangladesh and Vietnam, as well as developed countries like the US (Miami, New York City, etc)

Fish stocks are moving to higher (cooler) latitudes. This is disruptive both to human fishermen as well as birds and other life that depend on those fish.

Pests that have been confined to lower, warmer latitudes are also moving to higher latitudes. That includes bugs like malaria-carrying mosquitoes and hemlock-killing Wooly Adelgids.

The long-term droughts in Australia and the South West in the US are predicted to become the norm, not rare events. That will be very disruptive both to populations and to agriculture.

Ocean acidification is weakening calcium-shelled critters like molluscs and coral. If we lose our coral reefs we lose the sea-surge protection they offer, and we lose the fish nurseries they provide. If we lose molluscs we lose a huge segment of the ocean food change.

Some weather models suggest that severe weather events may become more common. Heavier downpours; heavier showfalls (if it snows rather than rains); longer droughts; worse hurricanes (which doesn't seem to have happened in the US yet, though the one that hit the Philippines recently was considered to be the most powerful hurricane ever).

Many areas depend on winter snowpack to supply summer water. With less snow falling, some areas are, or soon will be, hurting big time. California has just instituted its first water rationing plan because they received only 5%(?) of their normal snow fall this winter. Cities dependent on water from mountain glaciers of the Andes and Himalayas are or soon will be in big trouble. What is the world going to do if millions of Indians are forced to migrate because of lack of water?

Some commentators claim that the Arab Spring was 'precipitated' <roll-eyes> by lack of food caused by drought.

Get use to it. The fun has only just begun. It will only get worse.

The Current and Future Consequences of Climate Change | NASA

The Positives and Negatives of Global Warming

20 Deadliest Effects of Global Warming

Effects of global warming - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Long-term effects of global warming - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Global Warming Effects Information, Global Warming Effects Facts, Climate Change Effects - National Geographic
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Old 09-04-2015, 11:49   #1208
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
Is that peer reviewed? And links aren't telling me what you think. Telling me what you think is telling me what you think.

YOU are the "someone" who posted it on page 78!
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Old 09-04-2015, 11:51   #1209
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Some Canadian havoc for you.

A cut and paste of Table 1 to save you the trouble.

Climate System Element Observed Trends
Temperature
Annual air temperature –
Canada
The annual average surface air temperature over the Canadian landmass has warmed by 1.5°C over the period
1950-2010
Temperature Extremes
Hot extremes – Canada The frequency of warm days (when the daily maximum temperature is above the daily 90th percentile) during the
summer has increased nationally since 1950
Cold extremes – Canada The frequency of cold nights (when the daily minimum temperature is below the daily 10th percentile) during the
winter has decreased nationally since 1950
Precipitation and other hydrological indicators
Annual precipitation – Canada Canada has generally become wetter in recent decades, as indicated by the increasing trend in annual average
precipitation
Snowfall/Rainfall – Southern
Canada
In several regions of southern Canada, there has been a shift in precipitation type, with decreasing snowfall and
increasing rainfall
Streamflow – Canada Observations suggest decreasing trends in maximum and minimum river flows over the period 1970-2005 in much
of southern Canada, with increases in minimum flows in western Nunavut, Northwest Territories, Yukon and northern
British Columbia
Snowfall – Canada Annual snowfall has declined over most of southern Canada and increased in the north over the last 6 decades
Snow cover – Canada Negative trends in snow cover extent have been observed during spring over the Canadian landmass, with largest
declines observed in June
Permafrost
Ground temperature – Canada Permafrost temperatures at numerous borehole sites across Canada have increased over the past two to three decades
Sea Level
Sea level – Global Global average sea level rose about 21 cm between 1880 and 2012 at an average rate of 1.6 mm/year
Relative sea level – Canada Relative sea level rise of over 3 mm/year has been observed on coastlines of Atlantic Canada and the Beaufort Sea
coast, with lower amounts along Pacific coastlines. Relative sea level fall of 10 mm/year has been observed around
Hudson Bay where the land is rising rapidly due to post-glacial rebound
Sea Ice
Seasonal ice extent – Arctic End-of-summer minimum ice extent has declined at a rate of 13% per decade over 1979-2012, while maximum winter
sea ice extent has declined at a rate of 2.6% per decade
Ice Type – Arctic A shift in ice cover from one dominated by thick multi-year ice (MYI) to one increasingly dominated by thin first-year
ice (FYI) has been observed
Eastern Canada Declines in winter sea ice extent have been observed in the Labrador-Newfoundland and Gulf of St. Lawrence region
Glaciers
Glacier mass – Yukon, British
Columbia, Alberta
Western Cordilleran glaciers are losing mass and shrinking rapidly to the smallest extents in several millennia.
Glaciers in British Columbia and Alberta have lost, respectively, about 11% and 25% of their surface area over the
period 1985-2005, while glaciers in Yukon have lost about 22% since the 1950s
Glacier mass – High Arctic Significant negative mass balances are evident from the early 1960s into the first decade of the 21st century. The
rate of mass loss for glaciers throughout the High Arctic has increased sharply since 2005, in direct response to warm
regional summer temperatures
Lake and River Ice
Spring ice thaw – Canada Trends towards earlier ice-free dates (lakes) and ice break-up dates (rivers) have been observed for most of the country
since the mid-20th century but are particularly evident in Western Canada
Ocean Climate
Canada’s oceans Long-term changes in ocean temperature (increasing), salinity (variable sign), and acidity (increasing) have been
observed in all three of Canada’s oceans. Long-term decreases in subsurface dissolved oxygen levels have also been
observed in the Atlantic and Pacific oceans off Canada
TABLE 1: Examples of observed changes in Canada (from Chapter 2). The length of the observational record varies with the indicator.


Yes I get it that the climate's changing. I got that on page 1 of this thread. But where's this havoc you speak of?
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Old 09-04-2015, 11:53   #1210
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tensen View Post

YOU are the "someone" who posted it on page 78!
So let me get this straight, your understanding came from my link with pretty pictures but incorrect numbers??

Is that what you're saying??
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Old 09-04-2015, 11:54   #1211
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
So let me get this straight, your understanding came from my link with pretty pictures but incorrect numbers??

Is that what you're saying??
Oh yes, of course.

(The numbers weren't actually incorrect BTW, they'd just skipped a step and gone straight from the value for the plane normal to the radiation, to the actual average value on the earth's outer atmosphere.)
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Old 09-04-2015, 11:54   #1212
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
Is that peer reviewed? And links aren't telling me what you think. Telling me what you think is telling me what you think.
I reviewed it. Does that make it peer reviewed?
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Old 09-04-2015, 12:12   #1213
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Originally Posted by SailOar View Post
I've made a number of posts meant to address your question. You haven't responded to them, so perhaps I don't have the correct avatar for you?
Sorry, been busy and your cut and paste technique isn't really conducive to banter.

Quote:
Rising sea levels will cost trillions of dollars to deal with. Both developing countries, like Bangladesh and Vietnam, as well as developed countries like the US (Miami, New York City, etc)
Didn't we already put this to bed?

Quote:
Fish stocks are moving to higher (cooler) latitudes. This is disruptive both to human fishermen as well as birds and other life that depend on those fish.
Rate of change must be enormous if fishing boats or birds can't keep up. Of course over fishing couldn't possibly have anying to do with it.

Quote:
Pests that have been confined to lower, warmer latitudes are also moving to higher latitudes. That includes bugs like malaria-carrying mosquitoes and hemlock-killing Wooly Adelgids.
I live 21 deg South and I'm happy to confirm no malaria or other exotic diseases have arrived yet.

Quote:
The long-term droughts in Australia and the South West in the US are predicted to become the norm, not rare events. That will be very disruptive both to populations and to agriculture.
Prediction doesn't count. 1930's dust bowl? Droughts and bushfires in Australia are not rare or unusual events regardless of what the media reports.

Quote:
Ocean acidification is weakening calcium-shelled critters like molluscs and coral. If we lose our coral reefs we lose the sea-surge protection they offer, and we lose the fish nurseries they provide. If we lose molluscs we lose a huge segment of the ocean food change.
More what if

Quote:
Some weather models suggest that severe weather events may become more common. Heavier downpours; heavier showfalls (if it snows rather than rains); longer droughts; worse hurricanes (which doesn't seem to have happened in the US yet, though the one that hit the Philippines recently was considered to be the most powerful hurricane ever).
We've all seen how well them models work. I prefer observation for example intense cyclones.
List of the most intense tropical cyclones - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
Many areas depend on winter snowpack to supply summer water. With less snow falling, some areas are, or soon will be, hurting big time. California has just instituted its first water rationing plan because they received only 5%(?) of their normal snow fall this winter. Cities dependent on water from mountain glaciers of the Andes and Himalayas are or soon will be in big trouble. What is the world going to do if millions of Indians are forced to migrate because of lack of water?
From the quote above this quote:
Heavier downpours; heavier showfalls (if it snows rather than rains);

You can't have it both ways!

Quote:
Get use to it. The fun has only just begun. It will only get worse.
Odd thing to say if this is what you are expecting.
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Old 09-04-2015, 12:14   #1214
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Originally Posted by Tensen View Post
Oh yes, of course.

(The numbers weren't actually incorrect BTW, they'd just skipped a step and gone straight from the value for the plane normal to the radiation, to the actual average value on the earth's outer atmosphere.)
Yes thank you. Lake-Effect already said that.
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Old 09-04-2015, 12:21   #1215
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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More what if
Not at all. The great barrier reef has lost 50% of its coral in the last 27 years and 10% of that was due to warming oceans.

De’ath, Glenn, et al. "The 27–year decline of coral cover on the Great Barrier Reef and its causes." Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 109.44 (2012): 17995-17999.
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