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Old 20-03-2015, 17:43   #106
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Originally Posted by Greenhand View Post
Are we reading the same thread? Where are the skeptics who might be interested in what NOAA has to say?
I think they're being given too much credit, at best they can be called pseudo-skeptics, because they've not done their homework. Overall they seem to be new world order conspiracy theorists who've not been able to come to terms with the changing world. It's kinda hard to categorize them, their ideas are, often as not, incoherent and/or self-conflicting .

The skeptics who matter are the ones who can talk about the problem rationally, you know who they are from the posts they've made. There's going to be plenty to argue about resolving this one with any kind of equity...

Couple things to check out if you haven't already. Google Shell/blueprint/scramble, have a look at the scenarios. And for a beginning on the 'pseudo-skeptic mindset' try 'Dunning-Kruger effect' and 'confirmation bias'.
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Old 20-03-2015, 17:47   #107
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Originally Posted by chris95040 View Post
OK - I asked the question, and I got my answer.

Climate change deniers best guess is that the whole of the scientific community
That's a great example of the problem.

Nobody said "the whole of the scientific community".

I'm sure there is valid work out there. But when an unknown number of people change the data to better fit their agenda, how the hell can you know who or what to believe.

Al Gore has ZERO credibility with anyone on this planet - except for those who shill for him.

Yet people continue to buy into his BS.
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Old 20-03-2015, 17:50   #108
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Originally Posted by DeepFrz View Post
Here is some more info for the skeptics.
[url=http://time.com/3750660/winter-warm-climate-change-noaa/]Winter Was Warmest on Record, NOAA Says
Hottest year on record? Wow.

<Skeptics hat on>
Record = 135 years, of which 2014's methods of recording and measurement are exactly the same as in 1880 or even 1970 for that matter? That's not even a blink of an eye in geological time scales. In fact it's not even really the blink of an eye in human civilization scales.

"2014 average global temperatures warmer than 1998 by 0.1 degrees Fahrenheit" would have been a more appropriate headline if the spin were to be removed.
</Skeptics hat on>
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Old 20-03-2015, 17:57   #109
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Al Gore has ZERO credibility with anyone on this planet - except for those who shill for him.

Yet people continue to buy into his BS.
What kind of shiite argument is that? Has no credibility except for the people who find him credible.

NDP wants emergency debate on sea ice after another record low - North - CBC News
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Old 20-03-2015, 18:03   #110
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Oh, well if the NDP wants it, it must be valid. After all, it's not like they're Socialists or unbiased - oh wait....
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Old 20-03-2015, 18:24   #111
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

What are you talking about tcpip95. They want a debate over the report that the Arctic winter ice coverage is another record low. Where is your head? Well, I have a pretty good idea so never mind.
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Old 20-03-2015, 18:45   #112
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Nobody said "the whole of the scientific community".
You are correct. AGW deniers want you to believe that merely 95% of the world's climate scientists are colluding to some obscure self-serving end by deliberately doing bad science. Clearly there's a difference. Our apologies.

Quote:
I'm sure there is valid work out there. But when an unknown number of people change the data to better fit their agenda, how the hell can you know who or what to believe.
Couldn't agree more. Just waiting for ONE shred of proof or corroboration that some climate scientists have materially altered the data, and that the rest of the 95% have overlooked the transgression.

Quote:
Al Gore has ZERO credibility with anyone on this planet - except for those who shill for him.

Yet people continue to buy into his BS.
You'd think there'd be an easier way for a well-liked former vice-president to make a fortune. Yet Mr Gore chooses to evangelize for the planet. Wierd. Must be lucrative, eh?
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Old 20-03-2015, 19:40   #113
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

The US National Snow and Ice Data Centre (NSIDC) said on Thursday that at its peak the ice covered just over 14.5m sq km of the northern seas. This was 130,000 sq km smaller than the previous lowest maximum in 2011.

Quote:
Bob Ward, at the Grantham Research Institute on Climate Change and the Environment at LSE, said: “This is further evidence that global warming and its impacts have not stopped despite the inaccurate and misleading claims of climate change ‘sceptics’.

“Over the past few weeks, there has been an increase in the amount of misinformation from climate change ‘sceptics’ in the UK and elsewhere which is intended to mislead the public and policy-makers into believing that the effects of global warming on the polar regions are absent or negligible.”
And another link
Arctic sea ice extent hits record low for winter maximum | Environment | The Guardian

and

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/
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Old 20-03-2015, 19:42   #114
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Originally Posted by tcpip95 View Post
That's a great example of the problem.

Nobody said "the whole of the scientific community".

I'm sure there is valid work out there. But when an unknown number of people change the data to better fit their agenda, how the hell can you know who or what to believe.

Al Gore has ZERO credibility with anyone on this planet - except for those who shill for him.

Yet people continue to buy into his BS.
Gore's Law

As an online climate change debate grows longer, the probability that denier arguments will descend into attacks on Al Gore approaches one.

Here's a hint. Al Gore could be short, evil and fond of child sacrifice. He could emit more CO2 snoring at night than Christopher Monckton does all year. And his movie could be even more inaccurate than the Great Global Warming Swindle. But this wouldn't change a thing. What matters is not Al Gore's character but science. And, in the case of climate change, it's awfully compelling.
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Old 20-03-2015, 19:47   #115
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

What an interesting thread. It seems to demonstrate how easily we like to divide ourselves into opposing groups instead of realizing how similar we are. This is a sailing forum and we have many similar hobbies, likes, wants regardless of our political persuasions.

It's so much easier once I realized that I was right about everything and everyone else is a moron

No matter where you fall in the global warming debate, the conclusion of a study done a while back has always stuck in my mind:
"Misinformed people rarely change their minds when presented with facts".
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Old 20-03-2015, 19:51   #116
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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What kind of shiite argument is that? Has no credibility except for the people who find him credible.
aka fools and sellers of Carbon Credits.
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Old 20-03-2015, 19:52   #117
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Originally Posted by Catalysis View Post
boat alexandra:
a couple of comments on your comments:
1. The octane comparison has little to do with energy transfer, a higher octane allows an engine to run at a higher compression and not Knock. The energy density of a fuel in btu's per gallon signifies its potential to power machines. Ethanol is less dense and therefore has less power to transfer to an engine.
If the engine runs at a higher compression it has a higher efficiency and converts more chemical energy into mechanical energy with less heat waste. By weight, ethanol has roughly the same energy just not by volume, but being more efficient you can actually go much farther on the same weight of ethanol vs gasoline. Ethanol is clean meaning people around will not breath bad fumes.

It is a superior fuel no doubt, but not if mixed with gasoline, that is stupid. That being said I am completely against using it (except perhaps ambulances) because it's not much better and has lots of issues with land use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by capngeo View Post
I LOVE Global Warming! I LOVE the seas rising.... in 3498, I'll have waterfront property! I can't wait!
In short term maybe it's great, but consider it with the past mass extinction from 250 million years ago when the earth warmed 5C which triggered methane to release which caused 10C average warming and the entire surface of the earth became barren like the sahara for millions of years.


Quote:
I don't want a ticket to reach the stars, I like it here just fine. And I don't particularly like air conditioning, except when I feel hot and sweaty and it's 95 degrees out without a breath of air moving, then it's about the only thing that can make me feel comfortable. In those conditions, turning on the air conditioning doesn't seem stupid at all.
This is very short sighted. Like living on a small island and cutting all the trees to build statues leaving none to make a canoe to reach other lands.

It's above 100 degrees in indonesia in the mid day, and I can be comfortable. Your problem is you don't know what you are doing in the heat and don't know how to take it. If you a/c fails you could put yourself in danger because your body is not acclimatized (a few hours in a/c sets you back weeks) It's like saying you need to inject morphine to be comfortable if you break a nail.
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Old 20-03-2015, 19:56   #118
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
MMGW deniers want you to believe that merely 95% of the world's climate scientists are colluding to some obscure self-serving end by deliberately doing bad science. Clearly there's a difference. Our apologies.

Lets make this a little more accurate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edited to prove the craziness of the quote View Post
Big Bank Theory deniers want you to believe that merely 95% of the world's evolutional scientists are colluding to some obscure self-serving end by deliberately doing bad science. Clearly there's a difference. Our apologies.
Science has nothing to do with consensus or what percentage believe it, it's about facts. That the MMGW cultists have to cite the fake 95% number...that's telling since they don't have the facts, they need the mob rule consensus....
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Old 20-03-2015, 20:04   #119
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

You know Rich, for a supposed self proclaimed scientist you are quick to throw names and labels at others. Maybe you need to take a good long look in the mirror.
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Old 20-03-2015, 20:09   #120
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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You know Rich, for a supposed self proclaimed scientist you are quick to throw names and labels at others. Maybe you need to take a good long look in the mirror.
Ever been in a Science class....heck it's all about categorizing, pidgin holing and labeling that's what science and research is...

However, you are making a mistake. You are assuming my label and name throwing is directed at Ideas and not posters. Its all at the ideas....not the people unless I inadvertently plugged in a pronoun wrong. I today's world, people have a hard time separating having someone disagree with their position (and call it wrong) with some type of personal attack. Lake and I always have a fun back and forth that maybe you are taking the wrong way?

Al gore is an exception...as a public official he's fair game to call an idiot.
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