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Old 01-04-2015, 19:37   #751
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Question:
The USA cuts 100% of its CO2 emissions tomorrow....what would that do to the worlds "out of control CO2 levels".

Ah....once you figure that out, you understand the game.
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Old 01-04-2015, 19:38   #752
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Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

The following article may be of some interest to some.
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/stomata.html
It opines that warming occurs first followed by a rise in a number of greenhouse gases, water vapor, CO2 etc. Not the reverse.
It also shows that CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere have been as high as 1400ppm in the past during the carboniferous periods (so named because plant growth was very high - naturally turning CO2 into carbon -as in trees).
The article and links show that statements that the earth is experiencing the highest CO2 levels are just not correct and that man-made increases are basically noise in a much greater natural cycle.
That said, I'm a big supporter of minimizing energy use and conservation but am concerned that there is an awful lot of hot air (pun intended) being generated which is leading to wrong-headed policies by politicians.


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Old 01-04-2015, 19:39   #753
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Oh now I get it....you are under some false assumption that I'm even attempting to have any credibility in the MMGW Cultists eyes. Na...who cares about what religuios fanatics think. Until they can convince the American Voters of their crazy cult, I just ignore them and their religion of Gia.
Well, you have a funny way of ignoring them for the amount of input you have had here.
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Old 01-04-2015, 19:46   #754
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
Question:
The USA cuts 100% of its CO2 emissions tomorrow....what would that do to the worlds "out of control CO2 levels".

Ah....once you figure that out, you understand the game.
Well, this one suggests the US is 20%. I would imagine that's reasonably significant, if it's true (?). Might be why your government has announced this week measures to finally do something about that.

Link to the article Seven Nations Contributed to 60 Percent of Global Warming: Study : Environment : Nature World News

Linik to the research National contributions to observed global warming - Abstract - Environmental Research Letters - IOPscience

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Old 01-04-2015, 20:07   #755
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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The following article may be of some interest to some.
Using plant stomata to determine carbon dioxide concentrations over the past 15,000 years
It opines that warming occurs first followed by a rise in a number of greenhouse gases, water vapor, CO2 etc. Not the reverse.
It also shows that CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere have been as high as 1400ppm in the past during the carboniferous periods (so named because plant growth was very high - naturally turning CO2 into carbon -as in trees).
The article and links show that statements that the earth is experiencing the highest CO2 levels are just not correct and that man-made increases are basically noise in a much greater natural cycle.
That said, I'm a big supporter of minimizing energy use and conservation but am concerned that there is an awful lot of hot air (pun intended) being generated which is leading to wrong-headed policies by politicians.


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An interesting article from 2000, that's 14 years ago, by an unknown group / person called 'geocraft. com'. Possibly Monte Hieb who is a prolific writer for anti climate change proponents. He's a mining engineer of course employed by the West Virginian Office Of Miners Health and Safety and Training. And what do you know, he's never published ANY any scientific papers. From what I'm googling he's opposed to 'peer reviews' and refuses to submit any work he does, not really a good start, if it was by him.

Well, it's clearly a well written piece. I can't check the credentials of the person putting it all together because it's not there. creates a difficulty for me. and it's clearly a page from someone or some people who rejected in 2000 the orthodoxy at the time (yes, they refer to the common view) so they know this is not common views.

It certainly contradicts the data of Ice Core scientists. Also lots of cutting and pasting from as many sources he can muster. Seems a bit like this thread.

This is when 'credentials' are so important. He just lacks them and so does this piece.
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Old 01-04-2015, 20:42   #756
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
An interesting article from 2000, that's 14 years ago, by an unknown group / person called 'geocraft. com'. Possibly Monte Hieb who is a prolific writer for anti climate change proponents. He's a mining engineer of course employed by the West Virginian Office Of Miners Health and Safety and Training. And what do you know, he's never published ANY any scientific papers. From what I'm googling he's opposed to 'peer reviews' and refuses to submit any work he does, not really a good start, if it was by him.

Well, it's clearly a well written piece. I can't check the credentials of the person putting it all together because it's not there. creates a difficulty for me. and it's clearly a page from someone or some people who rejected in 2000 the orthodoxy at the time (yes, they refer to the common view) so they know this is not common views.

It certainly contradicts the data of Ice Core scientists. Also lots of cutting and pasting from as many sources he can muster. Seems a bit like this thread.

This is when 'credentials' are so important. He just lacks them and so does this piece.
You really should spend less time trying to discredit anyone that disagrees with your views and more time trying to gain a balanced perspective of this rather complex issue.

The story in the stomata

Rising carbon dioxide is causing plants to have fewer pores, releasing less water to the atmosphere -- ScienceDaily

http://aob.oxfordjournals.org/content/76/4/389.full.pdf

Stomatal proxy record of CO2 concentrations from the last termination suggests an important role for CO2 at climate change transitions | Margret Steinthorsdottir - Academia.edu

15.2.3 Light, CO2 and stomatal aperture | Plants in Action

CO2 Science

Carbon dioxide as a selective agent for stomatal density
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Old 01-04-2015, 20:52   #757
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

I'm laughing that this thread still exists.
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Old 01-04-2015, 20:54   #758
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

I started looking at the plant stomata data a few years ago after some geophysicist friends shared their concerns of using CO2 in ice as definitive indications of prehistoric concentrations.
To many variables to be reliable in their opinion.
Plant stomata seemed to provide a more consistent record.
I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion here (which is highly polarized) but simply sharing that we need more congruency in test results - they are currently far apart.


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Old 01-04-2015, 20:57   #759
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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You really should spend less time trying to discredit anyone that disagrees with your views and more time trying to gain a balanced perspective of this rather complex issue.

ON the contrary, I'm not trying to 'discredit' him but instead
'recognise' his credentials and if credentials are not important when trying to work out what is 'true' and 'accurate' when dealing with a subject like this, then I honestly don't know what is relevant. I didn't do the science, for me I have to rely on the credibility of the works, as you should be as well. Otherwise the whole debate simply falls into 'laymen' (which we all are) simply giving unprofessional opinion.

And I'm certainly not and havn't had ago at anyone who "disagrees with my views". You Reefmagnet have so far declined to make any response to anything I've asked you off, because you claim I'm doing nothing more than 'baiting' you. The only view I've so far given is 'my view' that we should be relying on the professionalism and credentials of the scientists to determine if what they report on can be trusted.

I'll have a look at the following when I get the time.

The story in the stomata

Rising carbon dioxide is causing plants to have fewer pores, releasing less water to the atmosphere -- ScienceDaily

http://aob.oxfordjournals.org/content/76/4/389.full.pdf

Stomatal proxy record of CO2 concentrations from the last termination suggests an important role for CO2 at climate change transitions | Margret Steinthorsdottir - Academia.edu

15.2.3 Light, CO2 and stomatal aperture | Plants in Action

CO2 Science

Carbon dioxide as a selective agent for stomatal density
And again I have add at least five words to publish this, so just ignore it.
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Old 01-04-2015, 20:58   #760
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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I'm laughing that this thread still exists.
You need to use emotions so we can see you laughing.

We are going for the thousand commenths
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Old 01-04-2015, 21:26   #761
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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I always thought aerosols were just the vogue excuse for temperatures not meeting climate model best estimates. Were they mentioned prior to 2007 in any context? THE HOCKEY SCHTICK: New paper finds Asian aerosols are not a valid excuse for the 'pause' in global warming
Newer paper:

China's War on Air Pollution May Cause More Global Warming - Scientific American

http://www.paulsoninstitute.org/medi...us_english.pdf
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Old 01-04-2015, 21:29   #762
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
Question:
The USA cuts 100% of its CO2 emissions tomorrow....what would that do to the worlds "out of control CO2 levels".

Ah....once you figure that out, you understand the game.
That is why international cooperation is needed. The Montreal Protocol helped to stabilize the ozone layer through the reduction of CFCs.

Cooperation between Canada and the US reduced acid rain.
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Old 01-04-2015, 21:31   #763
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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You Reefmagnet have so far declined to make any response to anything I've asked you off
Are you the same Rustic that asked me to explain why the Maldives weren't sinking? To review "Chasing Ice"? To explain my version of "massive" as applied to glacial retreat and it's detrimental effect on climate change? What my climate change credentials are? And even perhaps encouragement to provide a take on the Antarctic ice sheet paper/link that was put up?

Because if you weren't, I have you confused with someone else.
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Old 01-04-2015, 21:33   #764
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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That is why international cooperation is needed. The Montreal Protocol helped to stabilize the ozone layer through the reduction of CFCs.

Cooperation between Canada and the US reduced acid rain.
That was done successfully because it was a fixable problem with proven science. Unlike GW, CC, MMGW or MMCC regardless.
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Old 01-04-2015, 21:40   #765
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Notice the word "may" in one of the titles. The other, pdf, has a word count of 4 "may" and 9 "could" words that relate to whatever hypothesis it is trying to push.

But, back on track. I'm on lunch and about to start rowing with the other slaves. Are you suggesting that pollution is good for AGW because it produces cooling aerosols or are you suggesting it's bad because it produces warming CO2?
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