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Old 01-04-2015, 04:09   #691
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
Reefmagnet: try discussing these things without your silly offensive comments and you might be taken more seriously. You obviously feel seriously about this, so spend the time to explain yourself without the need to put people down.
Says pot to kettle.
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Old 01-04-2015, 04:22   #692
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
Ok, let me demonstrate how your science works.

Reading the abstract, because I CBF reading the rest of this drivel.

340 km3 of ice is "vanishing" a freaking year. O.M.G. The sky is falling.

We're doomed I tell yea! Noooooooooooooooooooo.........................
.
.
.
.
.
But, hang on a moment. Let's be a "denier" and actually stop panicking and have a think about this, oh, for about 5 seconds.

Step one. Note the melt rate. 340 km3 per year.
Step two. Work out the volume of the Antarctic ice sheet = 26 500 000 km3 (go find your own link for this)
Quick Math. 26500000/340 = 77941.18 years (oops, is "only" 310, but I already typed into the calculator)

Run for the hills! Cap the wells! Flood the mines! Sell the Landcruiser! The ice sheets will be completely gone in less than 80000 years at this rate!!!!!

Now, let me highlight the falsehoods.

Abstract from Conachair's link...
The floating ice shelves surrounding the Antarctic Ice Sheet restrain the grounded ice-sheet flow. Thinning of an ice shelf reduces this effect, leading to an increase in ice discharge to the ocean. Using eighteen years of continuous satellite radar altimeter observations we have computed decadal-scale changes in ice-shelf thickness around the Antarctic continent. Overall, average ice-shelf volume change accelerated from negligible loss at 25 ± 64 km3 per year for 1994-2003 to rapid loss of 310 ± 74 km3 per year for 2003-2012. West Antarctic losses increased by 70% in the last decade, and earlier volume gain by East Antarctic ice shelves ceased. In the Amundsen and Bellingshausen regions, some ice shelves have lost up to 18% of their thickness in less than two decades.

Umm, ok. Can't be too many of them of them there ice shelves reducing by 18% based on my numbers. And, my-oh-my 70% is a dramatic number. To bad it means SFA in the AGW context. The rest is just blah blah blah....

But of course words like "rapid", "accelerated", "losses" et all really add to the dramatics and hysteria which I guess is the effect the author was after.

Does the bibliography of this paper note the wasted cost time and effort involved in this total waste of time study that mentions no more than numerous other studies on exactly the same thing?

Keep sipping on that pro-AGW alarmist Kool-Aid, fellas.
I'm no mathametician, but I'm seeing some serious misunderstanding on the way you worked out your 8k years. The following passage is the bit I don't think you grasped.

"Overall, average ice-shelf volume change accelerated from negligible loss at 25 ± 64 km3 per year for 1994-2003 to rapid loss of 310 ± 74 km3 per year for 2003-2012. West Antarctic losses increased by 70% in the last decade, and earlier volume gain by East Antarctic ice shelves ceased"

Its the acceleration that is the alarming bit. It went from what was 25km3 in the 9 years between 94 to 03 to a sudden 310km3 in the 9 years between 03 to 12.

At that rate, if it continues we are looking at the next 9 years, being 2012 to 2021 will be up around 600 or a little less if it remains at a 70% acceleration. It doesn't take too much maths to work out that if it increases at 70% for the next 4 cycles alone, (as long as it doesn't increase from 70% ) then 8000 years is not even close.
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Old 01-04-2015, 04:29   #693
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Says pot to kettle.
I havnt been reverting to name calling or put downs?
I legitameticlly and in honesty asked you for your thoughts on the film of Ice Chasers. You came back after you said you watched it and claimed certain things were said in the film which supported your claims. I went away and watched it again and could not locate your claims. Then I highlighted some of the clear 'observations' in the film and asked you to address them. You failed to do that and reverted to becoming extreem and silly.

Is it really too much to put responses forward fairly,and with integrity?
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Old 01-04-2015, 05:56   #694
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
I'm no mathametician, but I'm seeing some serious misunderstanding on the way you worked out your 8k years. The following passage is the bit I don't think you grasped.

"Overall, average ice-shelf volume change accelerated from negligible loss at 25 ± 64 km3 per year for 1994-2003 to rapid loss of 310 ± 74 km3 per year for 2003-2012. West Antarctic losses increased by 70% in the last decade, and earlier volume gain by East Antarctic ice shelves ceased"

Its the acceleration that is the alarming bit. It went from what was 25km3 in the 9 years between 94 to 03 to a sudden 310km3 in the 9 years between 03 to 12.

At that rate, if it continues we are looking at the next 9 years, being 2012 to 2021 will be up around 600 or a little less if it remains at a 70% acceleration. It doesn't take too much maths to work out that if it increases at 70% for the next 4 cycles alone, (as long as it doesn't increase from 70% ) then 8000 years is not even close.
The hype and hysteria was the most alarming bit. I'll apologise if your right in 2 centuries, promise ;-)

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Old 01-04-2015, 06:02   #695
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
I havnt been reverting to name calling or put downs?
I legitameticlly and in honesty asked you for your thoughts on the film of Ice Chasers. You came back after you said you watched it and claimed certain things were said in the film which supported your claims. I went away and watched it again and could not locate your claims. Then I highlighted some of the clear 'observations' in the film and asked you to address them. You failed to do that and reverted to becoming extreem and silly.

Is it really too much to put responses forward fairly,and with integrity?
Not having come down in the last rain shower, I believe your intentions, and conachair's intentions were to bait me.

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Old 01-04-2015, 07:16   #696
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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At any rate it has been established that this winter is the first in a new mini ice age that will last about 100 years. As good science as any other quoted on this thread.

Sun Scientists Debate Whether Solar Lull Could Trigger Another 'Little Ice Age'
Did you read it to the end

Quote:
Maybe, but it wouldn't do much, and not for very long. Researchers at the National Center for Atmospheric Research used a computer model to predict the effect of a future "grand solar minimum" on Earth's climate from 2020 to 2070. The model suggested the minimum might temporarily slow down the warming process by 20-30 percent. But within a few decades afterward, the temperatures would go right back to where they would have been anyway. Sigh.

CORRECTION: A previous version of this article incorrectly phrased that another grand solar minimum would cause global cooling, as opposed to slowing down the warming process.
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Old 01-04-2015, 07:44   #697
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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What is the normal temperature and CO2 concentration is a horticultural greenhouse full of lush fruit and vegetables?
For most fruit and vegitables, the temperature needed is between 20-30C, with adequate water (preferably rain or with good oxygen in the water) sufficient light and most importantly great soil. The CO2 concentration can be quite high, really not sure the exact limit or if we will ever reach it. This isn't the direct problem. The problem is rainfall and temperature. When it's too hot and/or not enough water, plants die.

There are C3 and C4 plants. C4 plants are more efficient (evolved later in earth's history) and more adapted to lower CO2 levels. C4 plants include corn, and sugar.

C3 plants are less efficient at turning light into energy, but perhaps more viable in higher co2 environment, include rice, wheat and potatoes.

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Run for the hills! Cap the wells! Flood the mines! Sell the Landcruiser! The ice sheets will be completely gone in less than 80000 years at this rate!!!!!
Even at 80,000 years if antartica melted this would be extremely quick in geological time.

But, you aren't considering acceleration, because after all, we are at the tip of the ice berg, and really it looks more like a few hundred years not 80,000 which is incredibly fast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
The hype and hysteria was the most alarming bit. I'll apologise if your right in 2 centuries, promise ;-)
It's a few decades at most, and really apologizing won't suffice; we require that you sacrifice your life, because, really you won't have a choice.
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Old 01-04-2015, 08:04   #698
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Heck...if some of you MMGW Cultists are gullable enough to think the Ice caps will be gone in 10-10yrs, I found the perfect deal for you in my inbox this morning.





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Old 01-04-2015, 08:07   #699
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

The link below is an interesting concise article documenting AGW paranoia, hysteria, jumping on the bandwagon, and just plain lying about the facts. This is by folks that should be better than this (they understand the scientific method.) For me it is indicative of how the alarmists play the game where the ends justify any means.

National Wildlife Federation De-volves into Climate Alarmists! | Watts Up With That?
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Old 01-04-2015, 08:37   #700
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

I'm looking for a grant to study the effects Global Warming is having on the mating patterns of Gay Whales in the Antarctic region. The grant will need to cover the purchase of my catamaran along with its tungsten hull shell for Arctic navigation. The scientific research program is estimated to last 5 years but given the rapid decrease in the floating ice shelf may require a longer period of research. Both the DoD and NASA are welcome to contribute grant money along with private and public donor's. This is a solicitation being made in bad faith and only the gullible and feeble minded need apply.
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Old 01-04-2015, 09:43   #701
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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There are C3 and C4 plants. C4 plants are more efficient (evolved later in earth's history) and more adapted to lower CO2 levels. C4 plants include corn, and sugar.

C3 plants are less efficient at turning light into energy, but perhaps more viable in higher co2 environment, include rice, wheat and potatoes.

These studies might interest you. Greenhouses really cannot be considered the same as open air.

Higher CO2 levels in open environments result in

1) increased predation by pests

Anthropogenic increase in carbon dioxide compromises plant defense against invasive insects

2) compromised nutritional value in food crops

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...ture13179.html
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Old 01-04-2015, 09:45   #702
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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I'm looking for a grant to study the effects Global Warming is having on the mating patterns of Gay Whales in the Antarctic region. The grant will need to cover the purchase of my catamaran along with its tungsten hull shell for Arctic navigation. The scientific research program is estimated to last 5 years but given the rapid decrease in the floating ice shelf may require a longer period of research. Both the DoD and NASA are welcome to contribute grant money along with private and public donor's. This is a solicitation being made in bad faith and only the gullible and feeble minded need apply.
You would need to apply to the National Science Foundation. Many skeptics are funded through that agency. Lindzen got over $3,000,000 during his career.
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Old 01-04-2015, 09:56   #703
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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I believe your intentions, and conachair's intentions were to bait me.
You don't need any help for that, you seem perfectly capable of achieving that all on your own
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Old 01-04-2015, 10:02   #704
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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You would need to apply to the National Science Foundation. Many skeptics are funded through that agency. Lindzen got over $3,000,000 during his career.
Thanks for the heads up. I wonder why the National Science Foundation would be funding contrarian scientific research. Isn't the NSF part of the Federal Government? How could they not be in lock step with the Federal mindset? So many questions and so much grant money to plunder.
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Old 01-04-2015, 10:04   #705
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

For the first time in 26 years, here in New England all the ponds are still frozen over on April 1st.

Global warming?
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