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Old 24-03-2015, 15:49   #436
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Per our overseers' requests to keep this on sailing.

Jimmy Cornell:

"Much has been written about this phenomenon and few sailors would disagree that global weather conditions appear to be undergoing a radical change.
This is also the irrefutable conclusion of the recently published report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. Its main conclusion is that the warming of the climate system is unequivocal. The atmosphere and oceans have warmed, the amounts of snow and ice have diminished, sea level has risen, and the concentrations of greenhouse gases (CO2) have increased. The globally averaged combined land and ocean surface temperature show a warming of 0.85C over the period 1880–2012."
Climate change – Jimmy Cornell's personal view - Cornell Sailing Events & Publications

"The melting of the Arctic ice cap due to warmer air and sea temperatures, is a simple fact. The consequences, though, are complex and far-reaching – not only for the Arctic itself, but for the entire planet.

The scale and complexity of the problem are only now becoming clear and there is still much to learn. Some of these effects will take place within our lifetime, others will occur over hundreds, and even thousands of years."
Climate change in the Arctic - Cornell Sailing Events & Publications
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Old 24-03-2015, 15:50   #437
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
There's no question what the truth is. But the point is that Al Gore was trying to leave the impression that he was more than just instrumental in setting the internet free from its government beginnings, he was saying he "created" it means quite a different thing to most people. If he had said that he sponsored a bill that untethered the early internet from the government and was proud that, none of us would have ever heard of it, but he was trying to leave the impression that HE did it all himself so he'd seem more important and it's only human nature to want to put self important people who seem to exaggerate their own accomplishments back in their place.

This urban legend has legs because the man has a habit of projecting a very self important attitude and taking himself WAY too seriously! So, whether you or he like it or not, he'll always be remembered as the empty suit who was so full of himself that he falsely claimed he invented the Internet. That's just the way it is....
As someone who is NOT an American with an American political agenda, and having spent some time reading and catching up on this thread , those of you asserting this are really really stretching the truth and loosing all credibility in your arguments. If you will do this with what this guy Al Gore said, (and I've watched the actual interview) then I have no confidence that you will represent any argument to do with global warming, and thus my ability to sail the north west passage, accurately.
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Old 24-03-2015, 15:58   #438
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Originally Posted by capngeo View Post
As a civilization, we need not fear the seas rising, we need to fear environmental zealots breeding!
that was funny, I'm glad I decided to check how the "debate" was going
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Old 24-03-2015, 15:58   #439
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Gentlemen, This thread is turning into a politics discussion and not a sailing discussion. I'm pretty sure neither group will change the others thinking.

I strongly suggest that you bring this thread back to a sailing discussion.
doh! I'm getting a real kick out of reading this thread each morning and if there's no wind I need a pick me up.

and they are staying pretty polite as all true sailors should be.

Can't you let it just 'sail on by'

(did I put in enough maritime thingy magiggy's )
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Old 24-03-2015, 16:07   #440
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

I'm not sure how some Pacific Islander residents would be feeling about those of you claiming there is nothing to fear about rising sea waters. Like the hundred thousand Kiribati residence as one example who are being forced to move to Fiji to live.

Of course there are a lot of examples of this, the Maldives, Seychelles, Torres Strait Islands, Tegua, Solomons, are just some that in the near future, 'our children' won't be able to sail too. I'm not sure if anyone anywhere disputes this.

But I'm ready for some more laughs if some one does.
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Old 24-03-2015, 16:17   #441
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Fine, your mind is made up. No point in discussing science then.
Actually that's not true either. I'll explain yet again that I've accepted in the past the planet is warming with some anthropomorphic influence. Just like you do. However, since doing a bit of reading (from both sides of the camp) over the last couple of days (slow couple of weeks - lol) I've come to question whether in fact there may even be some slight basis in the claim that the world isn't really heating at all and we are being duped by Y2K bug like fear mongering. I could outline what's influenced me in this, but I won't bore with the details.
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Old 24-03-2015, 16:30   #442
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

This is how you can tell an interlocutor is being disingenuous ... and it applies completely to the deniers.

Argument 1: Deny that something is true. (The climate isn't changing)
Argument 2: Deny that you are part of the problem. (Ok, so maybe the climate IS changing, but humans aren't causing it).
Argument 3: Deny that anythng can be done about it. (Yeah, so the climate is changing, and it's our fault. But, nothing we do can change that).

Now, if you had any evidence or conviction in the first argument, you'd never need to get to #2 or #3.

But, many will, incredulously to the rest of us, make all three arguments simultaneously hoping they can bamboozle all of the people all of the time. It seems to me there's no better evidence that at the end of the day, they never believed their original argument and that their position has been taken for reasons political, economic or something other than the facts in question.

And the irony is that by raising the noise level with arguments #1 and #2, those folks could well make themselves right on Argument #3.
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Old 24-03-2015, 16:31   #443
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Actually that's not true either. I'll explain yet again that I've accepted in the past the planet is warming with some anthropomorphic influence. Just like you do. However, since doing a bit of reading (from both sides of the camp) over the last couple of days (slow couple of weeks - lol) I've come to question whether in fact there may even be some slight basis in the claim that the world isn't really heating at all and we are being duped by Y2K bug like fear mongering. I could outline what's influenced me in this, but I won't bore with the details.
Bore us. Please.
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Old 24-03-2015, 16:37   #444
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Originally Posted by sneuman View Post
Per our overseers' requests to keep this on sailing.

Jimmy Cornell:

"Much has been written about this phenomenon and few sailors would disagree that global weather conditions appear to be undergoing a radical change.
This is also the irrefutable conclusion of the recently published report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. Its main conclusion is that the warming of the climate system is unequivocal. The atmosphere and oceans have warmed, the amounts of snow and ice have diminished, sea level has risen, and the concentrations of greenhouse gases (CO2) have increased. The globally averaged combined land and ocean surface temperature show a warming of 0.85C over the period 18802012."
Climate change – Jimmy Cornell's personal view - Cornell Sailing Events & Publications

"The melting of the Arctic ice cap due to warmer air and sea temperatures, is a simple fact. The consequences, though, are complex and far-reaching not only for the Arctic itself, but for the entire planet.

The scale and complexity of the problem are only now becoming clear and there is still much to learn. Some of these effects will take place within our lifetime, others will occur over hundreds, and even thousands of years."
Climate change in the Arctic - Cornell Sailing Events & Publications
Interesting how a non climate scientist's opinion (and this is the second time Jimmy has been quoted in this thread) can be used in a supporting argument when it's pro-AGW, yet the modus operandi for debunking skeptics is to immediately point out their lack of qualifications in the field or to otherwise launch an attack upon their motives and/or character?
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Old 24-03-2015, 16:39   #445
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
Actually that's not true either. I'll explain yet again that I've accepted in the past the planet is warming with some anthropomorphic influence. Just like you do. However, since doing a bit of reading (from both sides of the camp) over the last couple of days (slow couple of weeks - lol) I've come to question whether in fact there may even be some slight basis in the claim that the world isn't really heating at all and we are being duped by Y2K bug like fear mongering. I could outline what's influenced me in this, but I won't bore with the details.
Oh God, now two threads are bringing us to this fight... OK I'll bite, what are the details... wait a minute I have to put down my book on how we never went to the moon either.
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Old 24-03-2015, 16:49   #446
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
Interesting how a non climate scientist's opinion (and this is the second time Jimmy has been quoted in this thread) can be used in a supporting argument when it's pro-AGW, yet the modus operandi for debunking skeptics is to immediately point out their lack of qualifications in the field or to otherwise launch an attack upon their motives and/or character?
No, he's not a climate scientist, but he indisputably knows a thing or two about global weather patterns ... and he carries some credibility with the folks on this forum.
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Old 24-03-2015, 17:35   #447
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Big Al Gore fan ehh?
No, I dislike mistruths.
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Old 24-03-2015, 17:40   #448
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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I could outline what's influenced me in this, but I won't bore with the details.
Do tell.

BTW - I worked in an department in which 2 digit year was a serious problem. Damned cobol and fortan programmers. Enough resources were put in place that everything turned out fine.
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Old 24-03-2015, 17:41   #449
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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No, he's not a climate scientist, but he indisputably knows a thing or two about global weather patterns ... and he carries some credibility with the folks on this forum.
But weather isn't climate. That's a pro-AGW prime argument.
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Old 24-03-2015, 17:41   #450
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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I'll explain yet again that I've accepted in the past the planet is warming with some anthropomorphic influence.
I hope you mean anthropogenic.
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