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Old 22-03-2015, 14:52   #286
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Now that's playing with words. I have no idea what academy these guys belong to but there are rather a lot of them disputing IPCC.

SPECIAL REPORT: More Than 1000 International Scientists Dissent Over Man-Made Global Warming Claims – Challenge UN IPCC & Gore | Climate Depot
Not playing with words.

Office of Planning and Research - List of Organizations

Name just one science academy that disputes the IPCC findings.


And you can find scientists that dispute evolution, moon landings, etc..

BTW Marc Morano is not a climate scientist by any stretch. He is a political hatchet man..

Morano was recently Sen. Inhofe’s key climate staffer, and before that Rush Limbaugh’s “Man in Washington,” and before that, the guy who helped launch the Swift Board smear campaign against John Kerry during the 2004 election.
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Old 22-03-2015, 15:18   #287
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Now that's playing with words. I have no idea what academy these guys belong to but there are rather a lot of them disputing IPCC.

SPECIAL REPORT: More Than 1000 International Scientists Dissent Over Man-Made Global Warming Claims – Challenge UN IPCC & Gore | Climate Depot
From the link above:


By: Marc Morano - Climate Depot December 8, 2010 2:25 PM

The rapidity of the global warming establishment’s collapse would have been unheard of just two years ago. Prominent physicist Hal Lewis resigned from American Physical Society, calling “Global warming the greatest and most successful pseudoscientific fraud I have seen in my long life.” UK astrophysicist Piers Corbyn was blunt about what Climategate revealed: “The case for climate fears is blown to smithereens…the whole theory should be destroyed and discarded and UN conference should be closed.”



To paraphrase Mark Twain, 'It seems the collapse of the global warming establishment has been greatly exaggerated...'

It says quite a lot to read about Marc Morano's 'career'...
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Old 22-03-2015, 15:29   #288
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

I go to bed and get up six hours later and there is pages added to this thread. I love reading it. Havn't had such a good laugh for ages.
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Old 22-03-2015, 15:37   #289
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

More on Morano - he is one of the "subjects" in the Merchants of Doubt documentary.

The Movie Climate Science Deniers Don't Want You To See | ThinkProgress
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Old 22-03-2015, 15:37   #290
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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I go to bed and get up six hours later and there is pages added to this thread. I love reading it. Havn't had such a good laugh for ages.
Is that a global warming generated snowbank you've got your head stuck in?
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Old 22-03-2015, 15:44   #291
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

I have my own theory on all of this. Absolutely no evidence to support the theory I must admit. My theory is that a great percentage of Climate deniers are also 'creationists'. And if that's the case, 'evidence' is not a key ingredient to a discussion, let alone a debate.
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Old 22-03-2015, 15:48   #292
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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I have my own theory on all of this. Absolutely no evidence to support the theory I must admit. My theory is that a great percentage of Climate deniers are also 'creationists'. And if that's the case, 'evidence' is not a key ingredient to a discussion, let alone a debate.
I suspect you are correct

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Old 22-03-2015, 16:05   #293
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Just got back to Whoville, MA (14 degrees F tonight) from Grand Turk 75 degrees F. Still on the airport shuttle to home... Lots of snow.

19 degree F windchill while waiting outdoors for the bus. No evidence of global warming to report.
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Old 22-03-2015, 16:05   #294
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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I have my own theory on all of this. Absolutely no evidence to support the theory I must admit. My theory is that a great percentage of Climate deniers are also 'creationists'. And if that's the case, 'evidence' is not a key ingredient to a discussion, let alone a debate.
Warmists are the ones who have much more in common with creationists, they both fervently believe in something that they can't prove to be true. The difference between them is that most creationists are relatively content to keep to themselves, at least they don't make it a habit of coming on forums like this to evangelize their chosen beliefs and be dismissive of anyone who is reluctant to adopt them without actual scientific proof.
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Old 22-03-2015, 16:09   #295
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Here's some Greenland ice core data plus modern measurements. I think it shows the present Greenland temperatures are within normal historical variation. Also, this may tamp down the fear that the glaciers on Greenland are going away in our lifetimes.



Relative Homogeneity of the Medieval Warm Period (MWP) and The Little Ice Age (LIA) | Watts Up With That?
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Old 22-03-2015, 16:26   #296
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Oh, and my side..... my side is in the middle; I believe almost nothing other than the weather forecast (and even that is dubious) that I see on Fox, CNN, CNBC etc..... I'll swallow a little bit more from BBC, however I digress.... Why has nobody offered a comment to the following:
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The World has been cooling and warming for BILLIONS of years without mankind's help... what an arrogant thought that we have (or can) do anything to affect that!
I did post up graphs that aligned quite well with each other from independent sources and that both originated from non AGW debate sites (although one of those graphs has become a bit of a poster child for the non believers over the years).

These graphs clearly show that the earth is currently at below average temperature (in fact it's sitting just above minimums) and that Earth's most stable climate as at a point at the top of the scale, not the bottom.

First life appeared on the geological 24 hour time clock at around 4:00 in the morning. Humans made their entry at 23:58:43. Comparisons of climate prediction are based on a sample period representing a handful of milliseconds. Humans evolved at a time when the Earth's temperature was indeed at near absolute minimums - i.e. during the midst of an ice age - produced by "normal" climate variation so, ironically within this context, the most advanced life on this blue dot of ours evolved during one of the most uncommon climatic periods of Earth.

There's the famous saying that "Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it". Here's a snippet from a US government website (geology.utah.gov):

Do ice ages come and go slowly or rapidly? Records show that ice ages typically develop slowly, whereas they end more abruptly. Glacials and interglacials within an ice age display this same trend.

On a shorter time scale, global temperatures fluctuate often and rapidly. Various records reveal numerous large, widespread, abrupt climate changes over the past 100,000 years. One of the more recent intriguing findings is the remarkable speed of these changes. Within the incredibly short time span (by geologic standards) of only a few decades or even a few years, global temperatures have fluctuated by as much as 15°F (8°C) or more.


That one paragraph alone, if indeed true (and I haven't verified it personally) should kill the whole argument of AGW stone, motherless dead. Again, not saying that as a species we aren't providing the icing on the cake of the "problem", however if this is indeed a natural cycle than any measures taken with the expectation of stopping change will be no more effective than King Canute's attempts to stem the tide.

So there you go. The reason no one responds is because irrefutable facts can not be argued with. And this is the problem with AGW climate science. The only irrefutable facts they have is that the climate is showing a non linear warming trend and that CO2 levels are progressively increasing because of fossil fuel consumption and deforestation. They are trying to link the actions of an almost infinitely chaotic system with an easy to quantify increase in carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. And that is really hard to do. Just look at your weather reports for an example of how difficult it is to predict weather over a three day period and transpose that to predicting climate change over a 100 year or beyond period.
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Old 22-03-2015, 16:28   #297
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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...the guy who helped launch the Swift Boa[t] truth campaign against John Kerry during the 2004 election.
FIFY...
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Old 22-03-2015, 16:38   #298
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Warmists are the ones who have much more in common with creationists, they both fervently believe in something that they can't prove to be true. The difference between them is that most creationists are relatively content to keep to themselves, at least they don't make it a habit of coming on forums like this to evangelize their chosen beliefs and be dismissive of anyone who is reluctant to adopt them without actual scientific proof.
Scientists fervently believe they cannot prove "it" to be true. They believe that continued experimentation and observation will continue to produce evidence that supports the hypothesis. And where a piece of the hypothesis is refuted by experiment or observation, they abandon that piece as incorrect.

Conversely, this does not describe the behavior I have observed with science deniers. Whether they by evolution deniers, anti-vaxxers, anti-climate-change, or any other foolishness, in my experience they all choose a set of "facts" based on their ideology, and then cherry pick any evidence that appears to support their "facts" while ignoring any evidence that does not.

It is a source of amusement to watch so many science deniers cheerfully use the gifts provided to them by science to deny science.

There will be incorrect findings; missteps; forays off into the wrong directions. Science is messy and fraught with uncertainty, and admits to this. But the scientific method works. Otherwise there would be no forum in which to foolishly argue over it.
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Old 22-03-2015, 16:54   #299
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Originally Posted by savoir View Post
Now that's playing with words. I have no idea what academy these guys belong to but there are rather a lot of them disputing IPCC.

SPECIAL REPORT: More Than 1000 International Scientists Dissent Over Man-Made Global Warming Claims – Challenge UN IPCC & Gore | Climate Depot
You need to read the report. I picked a "dissenter" at random, Robert B. Laughlin. He doesn't dispute the findings, only whether we can do anything about them. I quote: "The geologic record suggests that climate ought not to concern us too much when we’re gazing into the energy future, not because it's unimportant, but because it's beyond our power to control."

That ain't the same thing.
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Old 22-03-2015, 17:03   #300
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Scientists fervently believe they cannot prove "it" to be true. They believe that continued experimentation and observation will continue to produce evidence that supports the hypothesis. And where a piece of the hypothesis is refuted by experiment or observation, they abandon that piece as incorrect.

Conversely, this does not describe the behavior I have observed with science deniers. Whether they by evolution deniers, anti-vaxxers, anti-climate-change, or any other foolishness, in my experience they all choose a set of "facts" based on their ideology, and then cherry pick any evidence that appears to support their "facts" while ignoring any evidence that does not.

It is a source of amusement to watch so many science deniers cheerfully use the gifts provided to them by science to deny science.

There will be incorrect findings; missteps; forays off into the wrong directions. Science is messy and fraught with uncertainty, and admits to this. But the scientific method works. Otherwise there would be no forum in which to foolishly argue over it.
Say what? Climategate, data "homogenization", Mann's hockey stick graph, 95% consensus and goodness knows whatever else. You are in fact describing the side you appear to be batting for. So called "deniers" do not have anywhere near the runs on the board when it comes to producing manicured, cherry picked data under a cloak of non biased scientific research.
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