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Old 22-03-2015, 10:52   #271
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Originally Posted by capngeo View Post
Still no comment to irrefutable fact.......


I am always amused by those who subscribe to the extreme views of society (Be it Liberal, Conservative, Green, Guns or Anchors). It would seem once the magic Kool-aid has been consumed there is no other point of view that could possibly be correct, and everyone who doesn't think the same is either a fool, racist, or village idiot!
It's called confirmation bias. And, it's exacerbated by partisan media. That's why so many studies have shown that the more one watches Fox News, the less they know.
http://www.people-press.org/2007/04/...n-revolutions/
http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/ab...owski_2013.pdf
http://www.climateshiftproject.org/w...ldmanStudy.pdf
http://publicmind.fdu.edu/2011/knowless/
http://www.comm.ohio-state.edu/kgarr...squeRumors.pdf
http://woods.stanford.edu/sites/defa...g-Fox-News.pdf
http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Ir..._Oct03_rpt.pdf
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Old 22-03-2015, 10:55   #272
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Its a funny thing about history.

I have always been amused that items of deep concern or worldwide impact and consequences, can be fixed by removing political or financial or power incentives to keep them going. The problem ceases to exist. Amazing that.

There is no doubt that climate changes occur. But then, that is what climate does. It is influenced by things that go on in the atmosphere, and even out of it. Its in the parameters of its action. An accurate reading of climate action over the years will answer questions as to whether or not we have anything to worry about today.

And for all those that jump up and down in anguish, the government response is: taxation. Carbon tax, tax on this, tax on that. No one really does anything..... there is nothing to do. Just repeat the mantra and take the money.

We will pay for their continuation of doing what they do without cessation

The more real problem that needs to be tackled is governments and their agenda to bring the world together through fear and threats, and control it centrally.

I have also noted that in order to perpetrate a lie, again for power, control and money, governments enforce a law for compliance. Then the lie is now officially the truth and even if proved otherwise, the tax remains.

In short, I dont really have a concern for the Earth and its ability to adjust itself in the face of mans ill treatment of it, but I do have concerns how easy it is to fool all the people all of the time and let the interests of those with power be carried by those that are misled, and failing that, coerced.

So as the Antartcic waterways are open right now........ go an enjoy. See something that you couldnt see a few years ago, for in another few years it will have closed up again as Climate does its thing.

So Im not going to argue with those that fervently believe that we are in trouble.

There is nothing you can do to change anything, even if it was true.

but you will pay the taxes.
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Old 22-03-2015, 10:57   #273
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Originally Posted by MBLittle View Post
It's difficult to understand how someone doesn't know the difference between weather and climate.


Also interesting, the world is larger than the box you live in. Yes, it twas cold for you poor folk in the American north east. Which, oddly, isn't the center of the universe.

Here in the Caribbean, for example, it's been one of the hottest and driest winters in centuries.

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Funny how whenever there's even a single big hurricane in the US, or a long spell of hot, dry weather during the summer, there's lots of talk about how it's only to be expected due to AGW, but when we have record breaking cold temps and record breaking snowfalls, it's just weather.
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Old 22-03-2015, 11:04   #274
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
Funny how whenever there's even a single big hurricane in the US, or a long spell of hot, dry weather during the summer, there's lots of talk about how it's only to be expected due to AGW, but when we have record breaking cold temps and record breaking snowfalls, it's just weather.
Don't forget, first time in known history, no tornados recorded in March (to date) in the good ole USA.
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Old 22-03-2015, 11:16   #275
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Originally Posted by weavis View Post

And for all those that jump up and down in anguish, the government response is: taxation. Carbon tax, tax on this, tax on that. No one really does anything..... there is nothing to do. Just repeat the mantra and take the money.

We will pay for their continuation of doing what they do without cessation

The more real problem that needs to be tackled is governments and their agenda to bring the world together through fear and threats, and control it centrally.

I have also noted that in order to perpetrate a lie, again for power, control and money, governments enforce a law for compliance. Then the lie is now officially the truth and even if proved otherwise, the tax remains.

In short, I dont really have a concern for the Earth and its ability to adjust itself in the face of mans ill treatment of it, but I do have concerns how easy it is to fool all the people all of the time and let the interests of those with power be carried by those that are misled, and failing that, coerced.



but you will pay the taxes.
This is how a carbon tax works.

A carbon tax is simply a means of putting a cost on excess CO2. Any company that has waste product in a liquid or solid form has to pay to have it properly disposed. Are invisible gases exempt just because we cannot see them i the air?

A carbon tax is collected from fossil-fuel companies upon the first sale at the mine, wellhead or port of entry.

The money collected via this fee would be distributed to the public as a monthly “dividend” or “green check.” Distributing all of the revenue equitably to households will ensure that families can afford the energy they need during the transition to a clean energy future, and it should help win public support for a rising carbon fee.

There is no government revenue and no corporate profit.

Check out the carbon tax in British Columbia. It is revenue neutral.

Province of British Columbia


Here is an assessment of BC's carbon tax

British Columbia has had a carbon tax since 2008. It isn’t large or onerous; for example, the tax on gasoline is 6.67 cents per litre, and on higher-carbon diesel it’s 7.67 cents. The tax, also covering coal, natural gas and other fuels, has had a big impact. Between 2008 and 2012, per capita consumption of the fuels subject to the carbon tax fell by more than 17 per cent in BC, while rising by 1.5 per cent in the rest of Canada, according to an analysis by Stewart Elgie of the University of Ottawa. Per capita greenhouse-gas emissions from sources subject to the BC carbon tax fell 10 per cent, while the rest of the country’s per capita emissions from the same sources were down 1.1 per cent. And even as BC’s path of carbon use was diverging from the rest of Canada, its economic performance was not. The best measure of economic growth – per capita gross domestic product – shows almost no difference between BC and the rest of Canada between 2008 and 2011. In fact, BC’s economic growth, even with a carbon tax, slightly outperformed the rest of the country.

What’s more, BC has used the carbon tax to reduce personal and business taxes. For middle-class and upper-middle income people, BC is now the province with the lowest income-tax burden – lower than Alberta.

In other words, BC has delivered big results, without taking radical steps. A tax on carbon nudged millions of British Columbians into making small decisions to figure out how to lower their carbon-tax burden. And all of those small steps have added up. There have been millions of tiny evolutions – not one giant revolution. The entire province didn’t give up cars or capitalism.

How to fight global warming without destroying the economy? Use a little Econ 101 - The Globe and Mail

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Old 22-03-2015, 11:20   #276
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Originally Posted by LakeSuperior View Post
Don't forget, first time in known history, no tornados recorded in March (to date) in the good ole USA.
Meanwhile in the other 98% of the planet.

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Old 22-03-2015, 11:22   #277
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
This is how a carbon tax works.

A carbon tax is simply a means of putting a cost on excess CO2. Any company that has waste product in a liquid or solid form has to pay to have it properly disposed. Are invisible gases exempt just because we cannot see them i the air?

A carbon tax is collected from fossil-fuel companies upon the first sale at the mine, wellhead or port of entry.

The money collected via this fee would be distributed to the public as a monthly “dividend” or “green check.” Distributing all of the revenue equitably to households will ensure that families can afford the energy they need during the transition to a clean energy future, and it should help win public support for a rising carbon fee.

There is no government revenue and no corporate profit.

Check out the carbon tax in British Columbia. It is revenue neutral.

Province of British Columbia


Here is an assessment of BC's carbon tax

British Columbia has had a carbon tax since 2008. It isn’t large or onerous; for example, the tax on gasoline is 6.67 cents per litre, and on higher-carbon diesel it’s 7.67 cents. The tax, also covering coal, natural gas and other fuels, has had a big impact. Between 2008 and 2012, per capita consumption of the fuels subject to the carbon tax fell by more than 17 per cent in BC, while rising by 1.5 per cent in the rest of Canada, according to an analysis by Stewart Elgie of the University of Ottawa. Per capita greenhouse-gas emissions from sources subject to the BC carbon tax fell 10 per cent, while the rest of the country’s per capita emissions from the same sources were down 1.1 per cent. And even as BC’s path of carbon use was diverging from the rest of Canada, its economic performance was not. The best measure of economic growth – per capita gross domestic product – shows almost no difference between BC and the rest of Canada between 2008 and 2011. In fact, BC’s economic growth, even with a carbon tax, slightly outperformed the rest of the country.

What’s more, BC has used the carbon tax to reduce personal and business taxes. For middle-class and upper-middle income people, BC is now the province with the lowest income-tax burden – lower than Alberta.

In other words, BC has delivered big results, without taking radical steps. A tax on carbon nudged millions of British Columbians into making small decisions to figure out how to lower their carbon-tax burden. And all of those small steps have added up. There have been millions of tiny evolutions – not one giant revolution. The entire province didn’t give up cars or capitalism.

How to fight global warming without destroying the economy? Use a little Econ 101 - The Globe and Mail

__________________________________

There is no secret agenda except in the minds of the paranoid.


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I have no doubt that the earth will survive, it might just do it without us.
Well....... Other countries see it differently.

What removing the carbon tax will mean for Australians
Repealing the carbon tax and the Clean Energy Package is designed to:

Reduce the cost of living - modelling by the Australian Treasury suggests that removing the carbon tax in 2014-15 will leave average costs of living across all households around $550 lower than they would otherwise be in 2014-15.
Lower retail electricity by around 9 per cent and retail gas prices by around 7 per cent than they would otherwise be in 2014-15 with a $25.40 carbon tax.
Boost Australia’s economic growth, increase jobs and enhance Australia’s international competitiveness by removing an unnecessary tax, which hurts businesses and families.
Reduce annual ongoing compliance costs for around 370 liable entities by almost $90 million per annum.
Remove over 1,000 pages of primary and subordinate legislation.
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Old 22-03-2015, 11:24   #278
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
Funny how whenever there's even a single big hurricane in the US, or a long spell of hot, dry weather during the summer, there's lots of talk about how it's only to be expected due to AGW, but when we have record breaking cold temps and record breaking snowfalls, it's just weather.
You should probably read some of those links I posted. The extreme cold weather is a byproduct of climate and climate change. My comment about weather was related to the comment of "but it's cold here how can there be global warming anywhere? "

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Old 22-03-2015, 11:25   #279
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
Funny how whenever there's even a single big hurricane in the US, or a long spell of hot, dry weather during the summer, there's lots of talk about how it's only to be expected due to AGW, but when we have record breaking cold temps and record breaking snowfalls, it's just weather.
Wrong.

You're just not paying attention. Note that this was written in 2010 before the big North American snowfalls of the past few years:
Get This: Warming Planet Can Mean More Snow : NPR
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Old 22-03-2015, 11:26   #280
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

I suggest that anyone who has questions refer to http://climate.nasa.gov/. They have a children's section for some who may need it.

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Old 22-03-2015, 11:33   #281
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
Funny how whenever there's even a single big hurricane in the US, or a long spell of hot, dry weather during the summer, there's lots of talk about how it's only to be expected due to AGW, but when we have record breaking cold temps and record breaking snowfalls, it's just weather.
This was published three years ago

Quote:
Arctic sea ice loss tied to unusual jet stream patterns
By: Dr. Jeff Masters , 2:40 PM GMT on April 02, 2012


Earth has seen some highly unusual weather patterns over the past three years, and three new studies published this year point to Arctic sea loss as a potential important driver of some of these strange weather patterns. The record loss of sea ice the Arctic in recent years may be increasing winter cold surges and snowfall in Europe and North America, says a study by a research team led by Georgia Institute of Technology scientists Jiping Liu and Judith Curry. The paper, titled "Impact of declining Arctic sea ice on winter snowfall", was published on Feb. 27, 2012 in the online early edition of the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. "Our study demonstrates that the decrease in Arctic sea ice area is linked to changes in the winter Northern Hemisphere atmospheric circulation, said Judith Curry, chair of the School of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences at Georgia Tech, in a press release. "The circulation changes result in more frequent episodes of atmospheric blocking patterns, which lead to increased cold surges and snow over large parts of the northern continents."

<snip>

References
Francis, J.A., and S.J. Vavrus (2012), "Evidence linking Arctic amplification to extreme weather in mid-latitudes," Geophysical Research Letters, 21 February, 2012.

Jaiser, R., K. Dethloff, D. Handorf, A. Rinke, J. Cohen (2012), Impact of sea ice cover changes on the Northern Hemisphere atmospheric winter circulation, Tellus A 2012, 64, 11595, DOI: 10.3402/tellusa.v64i0.11595

Liu et al. (2012), "Impact of declining Arctic sea ice on winter snowfall", Proc. Natl. Academy of Sciences, Published online before print February 27, 2012, doi: 10.1073/pnas.1114910109
more here: Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog : Arctic sea ice loss tied to unusual jet stream patterns | Weather Underground

BTW - Judith Curry is a well known AGW skeptic.
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Old 22-03-2015, 11:43   #282
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Its a funny thing about history.


I have also noted that in order to perpetrate a lie, again for power, control and money, governments enforce a law for compliance. Then the lie is now officially the truth and even if proved otherwise, the tax remains.



Next your going to tell me that my freedom doesn't come from government.
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Old 22-03-2015, 12:11   #283
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Weavus:That is great for the BC but that's not the way they plan to do it in the US. I checked California who are setting up the first one now. There is nothing coming back to the citizen tax payers. Ours will make it tougher for our factories to compete with other countries who don't care what their foot print is. We will lose in the trade deficient overseas and lose jobs locally. Our products will be too expensive to compete. Where did Cadillac go?
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Old 22-03-2015, 12:54   #284
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Individually some scientists are skeptical.

But no science academy on the planet disputes the findings of the IPCC.
Now that's playing with words. I have no idea what academy these guys belong to but there are rather a lot of them disputing IPCC.

SPECIAL REPORT: More Than 1000 International Scientists Dissent Over Man-Made Global Warming Claims – Challenge UN IPCC & Gore | Climate Depot
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Old 22-03-2015, 14:36   #285
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

James,
I think you made an excellent point..have you ever been in San Diego when the wind is blowing to the North? Absolutely disgusting. I'm all for clean air (as most people are) but I don't know how many more economic hits our state can take before it goes the way of Detroit. Ie high speed rail, (125 billion) moving the state water project intakes (30 billion) "renewable" energy mandate, etc etc etc

Andy
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