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Old 21-03-2015, 14:54   #196
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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I think this is really the root of your paranoia and distrust of science. You don't understand it. .
again...sorry, as a Scientist myself it's BECAUSE I understand it that I don't see the evidence for it. You can, as the MMGW Cultists do, try to make this about those dark age denyer, but until the MMGW Cultists bring some evidence to the table that actually Follows the Scientific Method (you know like make a prediction that is measured by facts and data about CO2) then it's all just a political hype game.

See but this is how the MMGW Cultists work...they can't argue their "data" so they go after the people asking for it as "kooks, right wingers, nuts, anti science, dolts. Sorry Chris, you just proved you can't bring data to the table so you play the game...and honestly, not even that well. Heck...I've been called worse on a good day.

Here's the bottom line.
You get the US House of Representatives which are elected by the voters every 2yrs to agree with you and not me and my fellow cave man book burning denyers, and then maybe you can put your crazy MMWG policy controls into affect. See that's the bottom line, folks. If you can't convince the American Voters that man made CO2 emission are a serious problem, then game over. If you can't advance your scientific argument then you lose. You can attack, name call, say the world is ending like the Ecofacists have been saying since the 1970's but if the world isn't ending, if new technology is continuing to make your arguments laughable, then what do you have at the end of the day for all your huffing and puffing? Nada.

I hate to be the one to tell you this, but reality is what reality is and in a Representative Democracy this is the way the game is played. You have to convince ME and people like me. Sorry you can't put me and my fellow denyers in a concentration camp and steam roll over us...well not at least YET.
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Old 21-03-2015, 14:59   #197
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
No post doc work and never claimed that any more than anyone else commenting here. But I do know enough about science to understand that real "settled science" involves repeatable experiments with predictable results. For example, the acceleration due to something we can't see, called gravity. If I throw a ball in the air, it will accelerate vertically at a rate of about 32ft/second squared, so by taking this into account, along with it's initial velocity vector and friction and any other forces that may be acting on it, I can predict where it will land as well as how fast it will be traveling when it hits and I will be correct 10 out of 10 times. If the acceleration due to gravity wasn't "settled science" I wouldn't be able to predict that with any consistency. Climate "scientists" keep making claims and predictions that don't even come close to coming true, and formulating models for the future that don't mesh with reality when that future arrives. If it were settled science, they would have had a lot better luck. You say you "believe" and that's fine, but it's not scientific fact you believe in, it's a theory, yet to be proven in a rigorous, scientific, manner.
Firstly, there's no such thing as "settled science."

Secondly, lots of science makes doesn't involve traditional experimentation and repeatable results. The study of climate, for one. Paleontology, evolutionary science, cosmology, etc. just to name a few others.

One more thing: a scientific theory isn't what you think it is. A theory is something that explains the data, in most cases better than competing theories. That's actually a pretty strong position. It means that, at least provisionally, the evidence is considerable.

Since you mentioned gravity, this explanation might be helpful: Text : Is Gravity a Theory or a Law? | The Happy Scientist
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Old 21-03-2015, 15:04   #198
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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You'd think there'd be an easier way for a well-liked former vice-president to make a fortune. Yet Mr Gore chooses to evangelize for the planet. Wierd. Must be lucrative, eh?

Well...his net worth has gone from under 2 million when he left office as VP, to 175 million this year. I don't know how you see it, but it sounds pretty lucrative to me.
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Old 21-03-2015, 15:12   #199
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

If your current level of CO2 is bad Mr MMGW Cultists, then tell me, what levels do we need to get it down to in order to save mother Gia? Riddle me that....
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Old 21-03-2015, 15:14   #200
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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again...sorry, as a Scientist myself it's BECAUSE I understand it that I don't see the evidence for it. You can, as the MMGW Cultists do, try to make this about those dark age denyer, but until the MMGW Cultists bring some evidence to the table that actually Follows the Scientific Method (you know like make a prediction that is measured by facts and data about CO2) then it's all just a political hype game.
Why does not one single science academy anywhere in the world dispute the findings of the IPCC?
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Old 21-03-2015, 15:17   #201
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
If your current level of CO2 is bad Mr MMGW Cultists, then tell me, what levels do we need to get it down to in order to save mother Gia? Riddle me that....
How about the range of the Goldilocks world for at least 800,000 years during which time homo sapiens and the food crops that sustain us evolved?

180 - 300 ppm




The last time we were at current levels was during the Pliocene era - 3,500,000 years ago at which time the earth was much warmer.
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Old 21-03-2015, 15:25   #202
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Why does not one single science academy anywhere in the world dispute the findings of the IPCC?
As we already established, your very question is meaningless to Science.
Science isn't affected by Peer Pressure.
Science isn't affected by Ego.
Science isn't affected by being invited to all the right conferences and being published in all the right papers.
See Science doesn't give a rats ass if 99.99% of the "Scientists" and schools teach the Big Bank Theory, even as it was False. It wasn't right and then made false once people came around to the truth, it was always false even when everyone believed it, taught it, and worshiped it.

The burden of scientific proof is on those proposing the turn the World Economy upside down and increase costs on energy. So far....nope I don't see it. Maybe that will change as more data comes in and I will say, I see the correlation between CO2 and MMGW but as of today, the MMGW movement is simply a cultural movement masquerading as Science. A way for people to feel important and better than the rabble by driving their Hybrid car in the carpool lane. There's another Liberal joke...carpools. It's been proven a failure for years, but why do all Government in the US do it? Ah...because it's the "cultural thing to do" not the Scientific thing.
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Old 21-03-2015, 15:27   #203
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

How the Most Important Glacier in East Antarctica Is Melting — The Atlantic
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Old 21-03-2015, 15:29   #204
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
Of course. Because theories about climate change can be tested like dropping two balls from the Eiffel Tower.

By this logic we should stop wasting money on astronomy and celestial mechanics, cos we can't test theories about the universe, or how stars are formed, or the Big Bang (or lack thereof).
Sounds like you've run out of argument entirely. All scientific theories must be tested one way or the other. No, it's not always as simple as dropping 2 balls off a tower, but all theories must be tested and proven/disproven or they remain just a theory.

I'm not sure how you arrived at the "logic" of not continuing to study astronomy but I certainly don't think that way about astronomy OR our climate. I think both are interesting subjects and should continue to be studied, but I don't think unproven theories about either should be used as the basis of public policy involving billions of dollars.
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Old 21-03-2015, 15:30   #205
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
Sounds to me that our good buddy Lake-Effect has a case of White Guilt that he's trying to purge away by supporting the MMGW Scam. If you have a guilt issue for the wealth you created give it away, problem solved.
This from a guy who pushes the racist button when someone generalizes about old white guys.

If you have no sense of history, no respect or gratitude for those who came before and paved your way, and no care for the future or its inhabitants, well I guess you'd feel that way.

[this space reserved for your rags to riches story about you did everything yourself]


Quote:
Originally Posted by redsky
[Al Gore's ] net worth has gone from under 2 million when he left office as VP, to 175 million this year. I don't know how you see it, but it sounds pretty lucrative to me.
Did you read the rest of the article? He made investments, he had a piece of Google before it went public, sat on Apple's board. Sundry other investments... And like any ex Veep, he gets fat speaking fees, which would come his way whether he speaks about the earth, or finger-painting.

He's not a guy getting rich off of AGW fear-mongering, he's a rich guy spending some of time advocating for the planet. Apparently this makes him more loathsome than your garden-variety rich ex pol. Should he have gone into something more noble like war profiteering, Cheney-style?
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Old 21-03-2015, 15:34   #206
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
How about the range of the Goldilocks world for at least 800,000 years during which time homo sapiens and the food crops that sustain us evolved?

180 - 300 ppm




The last time we were at current levels was during the Pliocene era - 3,500,000 years ago at which time the earth was much warmer.
How do they know that? It must be a theory. Was it derived from carbon testing? Was it caused by dinosaur farts? I just can't believe it. There were no rich selfish capitalist that far back in time according to the internet.
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Old 21-03-2015, 15:35   #207
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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If you have no sense of history, no respect or gratitude for those who came before and paved your way, and no care for the future or its inhabitants, well I guess you'd feel that way.
White Guilt and personal digs may persuade you in a scientific argument...me...not so much....

Next.
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Old 21-03-2015, 15:44   #208
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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I don't think unproven theories about either should be used as the basis of public policy involving billions of dollars.
The US spent a trillion in taxes and took 150,000 innocent lives to lose a bet in Iraq, so yeah I think AGW (theory or not) and other reasons provide sufficient justification for the INVESTMENT of a few 10s of billions of public money in conservation and energy alternatives. It's not just the right thing to do, it's developing the industries of the future. Or would you rather sit back and watch as China leapfrogs the US in advanced transportation, energy and other technologies? Their semiconductor capabilities already challenge those of the US and Europe.
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Old 21-03-2015, 15:48   #209
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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How do they know that? It must be a theory. Was it derived from carbon testing? Was it caused by dinosaur farts? I just can't believe it. There were no rich selfish capitalist that far back in time according to the internet.
Ice cores and climate change - British Antarctic Survey
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Old 21-03-2015, 15:50   #210
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

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Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
The US spent a trillion in taxes and took 150,000 innocent lives to lose a bet in Iraq, so yeah I think AGW (theory or not) and other reasons provide sufficient justification for the INVESTMENT of a few 10s of billions of public money in conservation and energy alternatives. It's not just the right thing to do, it's developing the industries of the future. Or would you rather sit back and watch as China leapfrogs the US in advanced transportation, energy and other technologies? Their semiconductor capabilities already challenge those of the US and Europe.
Here's all you have to do.
Win the US House of Representatives
Win the US Senate
Win the US Presidency
and simply Pass all the MMGW you want!!

Oh...wait....the MMGW Cultists haven't been able to do that....

Next up for discustion:
Why is Canada destroying the Environment by extracting the Tar Sands?
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