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Old 23-04-2015, 21:57   #1591
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
Nice dodge.


Sent from my SGP521 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
As a real skeptic, I check quotes - even those that are unattributed. Quote mining is intellectually dishonest.
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Old 23-04-2015, 22:30   #1592
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

An example of an "Inconvenient Truth" for the doomsayers. From today's National Review:

THE DOOMSAYERS WERE WRONG ABOUT THE BP OIL SPILL

Mother Nature heals herself. Five years ago this week, a blowout of BP’s Deepwater Horizon oil rig 40 miles from the Gulf Coast tragically claimed eleven lives and spilled 3 million barrels of oil from the damaged wellhead into the Gulf. It’s hard to forget the video images of thick oil gushing, day after day, into the region’s waters. It was a horrific accident that caused substantial damage to the ecology and commerce of the region. Gulf-area wildlife, portions of the shoreline, tourism, fishers and shrimpers, and energy-sector workers suffered large losses in the aftermath of the spill. BP has paid close to $27 billion in penalties, payments to aggrieved parties, and clean-up costs, in one of the largest payouts for an accident in American history. This is enough money to hand every man, woman, boy, and girl in Chicago or Houston a $10,000 check. In addition, as the result of a court ruling last fall finding that BP was guilty of willful misconduct and gross negligence leading up to the spill, BP might have to pay another $13.7 billion in Clean Water Act penalties. But the good news on this fifth anniversary is that the lasting ecological damage from the spill that was originally feared has not happened. The dire predictions by the media and the major environmental groups proved wildly off base. Today, the Gulf region affected by the spill is enjoying a renaissance of energy production, booming tourism, and a healthy fishery sector. Scientific data and studies over the past five years show the Gulf environment is returning to its baseline condition. The remnants of the spill are hard to find. A July 2011 environmental-assessment report from the Coast Guard found that none of the dispersant constituents found in the thousands of water and sediment tests conducted exceeded the EPA’s chronic aquatic benchmarks. Five years later, wildlife populations have proven largely resilient. For instance, commercial-fishery-landings data from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) show that, after a drop-off in the year of the spill, catch levels bounced back in 2011 to levels not seen in eleven years, and they remain strong today. Why has the damage been contained? First, we can be thankful that the vast majority of the 3.2 million barrels of crude leaked into the Gulf dispersed naturally, evaporating into thin air or biodegrading. Microbes, which already feast on the up to 1.4 million barrels of oil that scientists estimate seep naturally into the Gulf each year, increased in number following the spill — aiding the process greatly. The‎ massive, $14 billion human clean-up response, with 100,000 personnel, 6,508 vessels, and 13.5 million feet of containment boom was unprecedented and effective. Dispersants successfully assisted natural dissolution. ‎Some of the apocalyptic estimates of damage proved to be ‎mere propaganda. The National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR) predicted at the time that oil would enter the “loop current” and reach Florida’s Atlantic coast within a week. Synte Peacock, an NCAR scientist, warned that “the scope of this environmental disaster is likely to reach far beyond Florida.” Not to be outdone, CNN meteorologist Chad Myers breathlessly reported that “there will be tar balls all the way up the East Coast, all the way to Europe.” But the oil didn’t make it to Tampa, let alone Europe, as the requisite combination of winds and current failed to materialize. By the end of July 2010, NOAA administrator Jane Lubchenco admitted that, “for southern Florida, the Florida Keys, and the Eastern Seaboard, the coast remains clear.” And what of the long-term effects on the fishing and shrimping industries? The Southern Shrimp Alliance’s Jon Williams predicted the spill could last 40 years. CBS News Network’s Melanie Warner suggested that “this could mean a permanent end” to the Gulf’s seafood industry and that, “ten years from now . . . there will very likely still be seafood — shrimp, bluefin tuna, and maybe snapper and grouper — that are contaminated with BP’s oil.” Not to be outdone on the contamination concerns, CNN correspondent David Mattingly worried about the “cascading effect on the entire food chain” from the spill. And yet, less than four months after the spill stopped, the director of NOAA’s Sustainable Fisheries Science Center reported that “it appears so far that the impact on the larval population is relatively small.” Data from NOAA confirm that post-spill Gulf fish populations are robust and that commercial seafood landings have generally been consistent with pre-spill ranges. And more than 10,000 government tests show that the seafood is safe to eat. Audubon Society director Gregory Butcher warned that the spill “could be the strikeout punch” for Louisiana’s state bird, the brown pelican. And Cecilia Riley, executive director of the Gulf Coast Bird Observatory, cautioned: “The disruption of the food web and lack of adequate food supplies could reduce avian productivity for several years.” But in fact, Louisiana’s brown-pelican population was still strong just a year after the spill, according to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. The spill was predicted to have long-term negative effects on tourism as well. The managing director of Oxford Economics USA opined, “History and current trends indicate a potential $22.7 billion economic loss to the travel economies of the Gulf Coast states over the next three years.” In actuality, tourists have flocked to the Gulf every year since the spill, shattering records the summer immediately following the disaster in numerous locales, including Panama City and the Emerald Coast. Big Green has tried to capitalize on the BP spill as the reason to block any further offshore drilling. ‎And while there are critical caution signals from the accident, what is needed most is rational offsetting of the costs against tens of billions of dollars in benefits, including hundreds of thousands of jobs, energy security, and community development. Most in the environmental movement portray the ecology of our planet as fragile and weak. But the real story of horrific accidents like the BP oil spill, and natural ecological occurrences like Hurricane Katrina, is that Mother Nature adapts — and she has awesome healing powers. The Gulf recovery has been swift and impressive and the doomsayers were wrong. ‎When something like this happens, we should heed to the sage advice of the world’s most famous lawgiver, Moses, who warned us of false prophets: “If the thing does not come about or come true#…#the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him” (Deut. 18:22). Good advice, when it comes to the Green-movement prophets of doom. – Stephen Moore is a senior fellow at the Heritage Foundation and an NRO contributor. Joel Griffith is a Heritage research associate.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...-joel-griffith
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Old 23-04-2015, 23:24   #1593
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Sky View Post
An example of an "Inconvenient Truth" for the doomsayers. From today's National Review:
This possibly shows how political views can be such a strong influence on opinions instead of science. Reading what has been called "the bible of American conservatism" might be somewhat limited as a place to find out how the universe ticks ...

Five years after Deepwater Horizon, wildlife still struggling dolphins dying in high numbers; sea turtles failing to nest -- ScienceDaily
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Old 23-04-2015, 23:37   #1594
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Quote:
Originally Posted by conachair View Post
This possibly shows how political views can be such a strong influence on opinions instead of science. Reading what has been called "the bible of American conservatism" might be somewhat limited as a place to find out how the universe ticks ...



Five years after Deepwater Horizon, wildlife still struggling dolphins dying in high numbers; sea turtles failing to nest -- ScienceDaily

So my post quotes data from NOAA and the USCG and you're putting up a link quoting the National Wildlife Federation, a MMGW believing organization, hmm, I wonder which one is most likely to have a bias.
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Old 23-04-2015, 23:56   #1595
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Sky View Post
So my post quotes data from NOAA and the USCG and you're putting up a link quoting the National Wildlife Federation, a MMGW believing organization, hmm, I wonder which one is most likely to have a bias.
No, you didn't post data from NOAA and the USCG, you posted an article from Stephen Moore, a well known economist and anti conservationist and Joel Griffith an attourney, both key people within the Herritage Foundation, an extreemly conservative organisation which boasts as it's funding partners many global companies.

The science is still out on the Deep Horizon disaster. I hope the article is correct, but early indications (and it is early, just five years) are that it's not.
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Old 24-04-2015, 00:06   #1596
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Why do I even bother. I'll bet you all think Hillary C. is an honest person also. I'm out.
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Old 24-04-2015, 02:06   #1597
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Sky View Post
So my post quotes data from NOAA and the USCG and you're putting up a link quoting the National Wildlife Federation, a MMGW believing organization, hmm, I wonder which one is most likely to have a bias.
My money on the more likely to be biased would be the one with the least references.

PHP Code:
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123. Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill Ecosystem Science Conference2015. Using
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KEMP’S RIDLEY SEA TURTLE
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125. NOAA Fisheries2014. Kemp’s Ridley Turtle (Lepidochelys kempii).
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131. Gulf States Marine Fisheries Commission2013. Kemp’s Ridley Stock
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132. Second International Kemp’s Ridley Sea Turtle Symposium2014. The
2014 Kemp’s Ridley Stock Assessment
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Nesters
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133. Second International Kemp’s Ridley Sea Turtle Symposium2014.
Changes in the Foraging Strategy of Kemp’s ridley 
(Lepidochelys
kempii
Sea Turtle Populations in the Northern Gulf of Mexico Post
Deepwater Horizon Spill
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134. U.SDepartment of the Interior2013. The Deepwater Horizon Oil
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LAUGHING GULL
135. National Audubon Society
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136. National Audubon SocietyLaughing Gull (Leucophaeus atricilla).
137. Marine Ecology Progress Series2014. Bird mortality from the
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138. National Audubon Society2010. The Christmas Bird Count Historical
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LOGGERHEAD SEA TURTLE
139. U
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140. Journal of Environmental Science Health2000. Organochlorine,
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141. US Fish Wildlife Service2012. Loggerhead Sea Turtle (Caretta
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142. US Geological Survey2014. Nesting Gulf Sea Turtles Feed in Waters
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143. PLOS ONE2014. MigrationForaging, and Residency Patterns for
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144. National Wildlife Federation2010. Entire Habitats Wiped Out by Oil,
Dispersant and Fires.
145. NOAA Fisheries2014. Loggerhead Turtle (Caretta caretta).
MAHI-MAHI
146. Proceedings of the National Academy of Science
2014. Deepwater
Horizon crude oil impacts the developing hearts of large predatory
pelagic fish
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147. Environmental Science Technology2014. Acute Embryonic or
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148. Environmental Health Perspectives2005. Aryl Hydrocarbon
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149. Gulf of Mexico Research Initiative2015. Getting to the Heart of Oil
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28 FIVE YEARS AND COUNTINGGULF WILDLIFE IN THE AFTERMATH OF THE DEEPWATER HORIZON DISASTER
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150. Florida Fish 
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151. Transactions of the American Fisheries Society2014. Prevalence
of External Skin Lesions 
and Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbon
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152. Deep Sea Research Part IIDid Deepwater Horizon Hydrocarbons
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153. Transactions of the American Fisheries Society2014. Prevalence
of External Skin Lesions 
and Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbon
Concentrations in Gulf of Mexico Fishes
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154. Presentation at the 2014 Oil Spill Ecosystem Restoration
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Did the Growth Rates of Gulf of Mexico Red Snapper,
Lutjanus campechanusChange Following the 2010 Deepwater
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155. NOAA SEDAR2013. Gulf of Mexico Red Snapper Stock Assessment
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156. University of South Florida2014. Growth Rates in Gulf of Mexico Red
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157. FIO Block Grants ReportUniversity of West FloridaAcute Effects of
Oil on Northern Gulf of Mexico Reefs 
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158. North American Journal of Fisheries Management2014. Influence
of Age
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Deepwater Horizon Oil Spill on Recruitment of Age
-0 Red Snapper in
the Northeast Gulf of Mexico during 2010 
and 2011.
SARGASSUM
159. Nature Precedings
2008. Satellite Images Show the Movement of
Floating Sargassum in the Gulf of Mexico 
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160. U.SDepartment of the Interior2013. The Deepwater Horizon Oil
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161. NOAA1991. Utilization of the Sargassum Habitat by Marine
Invertebrates 
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162. Marine Ecology Progress Series2012. Young sea turtles of the
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163. PLOS ONE2013. Novel Pathways for Injury from Offshore Oil Spills:
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164. PLOS ONE2013. Novel Pathways for Injury from Offshore Oil Spills:
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165. National Wildlife Federation2010. Entire Habitats Wiped Out by Oil,
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SEASIDE SPARROW
166. Environmental Monitoring 
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concentrations in tidal marsh sparrows 
and their use as bioindicators
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167. BioScience2014. Effects of Oil on Terrestrial VertebratesPredicting
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168. Marine Pollution Bulletin2014. Changes in the concentration and
relative abundance of alkanes and PAHs from the Deepwater Horizon
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169. BioScience2014. Assessing Early Looks at Biological Responses to
the Macondo Event
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170. Marine Pollution Bulletin2014. Changes in the concentration and
relative abundance of alkanes and PAHs from the Deepwater Horizon
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171. Presentation at the 2014 Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill Ecosystem Science
Conference
2014. Determining the sources and availability of
food 
for the Seaside Sparrow in oiled and reference Louisiana Salt
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SPERM WHALE
172. NOAA Fisheries
Sperm WhaleNorthern Gulf of Mexico Stock:
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173. NOAA Fisheries
Sperm WhaleNorthern Gulf of Mexico Stock:
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175. NOAA Fisheries2010-2014 Cetacean Unusual Mortality Event in
Northern Gulf of Mexico
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176. Environmental Science Technology2014. Concentrations of the
Genotoxic Metals
Chromium and Nickelin WhalesTar BallsOil
Slicks
, and Released Oils from the Gulf of Mexico in the Immediate
Aftermath of the Deepwater Horizon Oil Crisis
Is Genotoxic Metal
Exposure Part of the Deepwater Horizon Legacy
?
177. Aquatic Toxicology2014. Chemical dispersants used in the Gulf of
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178. Presentation at the 2014 Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill Ecosystem Science
Conference
2014. Passive acoustic monitoring of sperm whales
(Physeter macrocephalusin the Gulf of MexicoFrom detection to
density estimation
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179. Presentation at the 2015 Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill Ecosystem Science
Conference
2015. Tag-acquired Sperm Whale Dive Behaviors Reveal
Unexpected Changes in Benthic Foraging Around Macondo Spill Site –
a Potential Long
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SPOTTED SEATROUT
180. CRC Press
2003. Biology of the Spotted Seatrout.
181. CRC Press2014. Impacts of Oil Spill Disasters on Marine Habitats
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182. Journal of Toxicology Environmental Health2013. Gene expression
and growth as indicators of effects of the BP Deepwater Horizon oil
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183. Journal of Sea Research2009. Modeling fish growth and
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184. CRC Press2014. Impacts of Oil Spill Disasters on Marine Habitats
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185. CRC Press2014. Impacts of Oil Spill Disasters on Marine Habitats
and Fisheries in North America.
WHITE PELICAN
186. Minnesota 
Public Radio2012. BP oil spill residue found on pelicans
in Minn
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187. The Passenger Pigeon2014. Changes in the StatusDistribution, and
Abundance of American White Pelicans (Pelecanus erythrorhynchos)
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188. Minnesota 
Public Radio2012. BP oil spill residue found on pelicans
in Minn
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189. Tom Cheverny2014. Researchers monitor effects of BP Gulf Oil Spill
on Minnesota’s white pelicans
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190. The Passenger Pigeon2014. Changes in the StatusDistribution, and
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191. BioScience
2012. Large-Scale Impacts of the Deepwater Horizon Oil
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Can Local Disturbance Affect Distant Ecosystems through
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?
RESTORING THE GULF OF MEXICO
192. The RESTORE Council is a federal
-state body created under the 2012
RESTORE Act to administer a Gulf Coast Restoration Trust Fund
that will receive 80 percent of the civil penalties paid by responsible
parties 
for violations of the Clean Water ActThis Trust Fund is and
will be a major source of funds for Gulf restoration
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Old 24-04-2015, 02:50   #1598
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Regional cooling; global warming.




Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
As a real skeptic, I check quotes - even those that are unattributed. Quote mining is intellectually dishonest.
Not as dishonest as your graph, it seems.



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Old 24-04-2015, 06:03   #1599
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Sky View Post
So my post quotes data from NOAA and the USCG and you're putting up a link quoting the National Wildlife Federation, a MMGW believing organization, hmm, I wonder which one is most likely to have a bias.
(For those who still insist that "climate change" is a 2-sided, yes/no proposition, instead of simply the result of scientific inquiry to date, and open to further study and revision... a gentle reminder that the vast majority of scientific work to date seems to support the theory of AGW, and there's no significant percentage of the subject matter experts seriously disputing the findings. Dr Curry accepts the findings. The real uncertainty lies in trying to predict the trend and its consequences more precisely, and in deciding what if anything we can or should do about it.

In this light, the statement "National Wildlife Federation, a MMGW believing organization" is more correctly stated as " National Wildlife Federation, a science-believing organization". I personally would not place any trust in any organized body that was not "science-believing", and raised non-scientific (aka political) reasons for opposing the prevailing science.

That is all. )
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Old 24-04-2015, 06:48   #1600
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
Not as dishonest as your graph, it seems.



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What evidence do you have that it is dishonest?
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Old 24-04-2015, 08:30   #1601
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Quote:
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...

I have not completely figured out this 3rd Day guy. The trolling part yes, but I don't know if he's as anti-science as he seems, or whether it's just that greenies and 'liberals' annoy him so much that he'll say anything to try for a reaction.

I tell you this - if retiring relatively young makes someone that bitter and self-centered, maybe I'll keep working a bit longer.

...
His screen name, SV THIRD DAY, may provide a clue.
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Old 24-04-2015, 08:37   #1602
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Big Insurance Companies Are Warning The U.S. To Prepare For Climate Change
Quote:
A coalition of big insurance companies, consumer groups, and environmental advocates are urging the United States to overhaul its disaster policies in the face of increasingly extreme weather due to human-caused climate change.

According to a report released Tuesday by the SmarterSafer coalition, the U.S. needs to increase how much it spends on pre-disaster mitigation efforts and infrastructure protection. That way, it asserts, the U.S. can stop wasting so much money on cleaning up after a disaster happens. ...

The SmarterSafer coalition is made up of more than 30 different groups, including some of the biggest insurance companies in the world: Allianz, Liberty Mutual, SwissRe, and USAA, to name a few. Adequately dealing with the risks of climate change is inherently important to the insurance industry, as failure to prepare can lead to increased costs for insurance companies when storms wipe out basements and take out walls.

Making sure the government is prepared is important for private insurers too. Because if governments don’t fortify their infrastructure, the damage can fall onto the companies. A good example is Farmers Insurance Co., which sued local governments in the Chicago area last year for failing to prepare for climate change (the lawsuits have since been dropped). That lack of preparedness, the lawsuits said, caused sewers to burst into people’s homes and property values to decline — damage that Farmers had to pay for....

Because states know federal relief is available and easy to get, the report argues, states are unmotivated to significantly prepare for extreme weather events....

The reasons for those increased disaster costs are two-fold, the report says. For one, the economy has grown since 1980, and there’s been more development — meaning there are bigger and more expensive structures to be damaged when extreme events hit. The other reason, it asserts, is climate change, which is increasing the risks that bad storms will occur across the country.

One of the biggest climate risks is sea level rise, which has increased both the frequency and length of minor coastal flooding — also called “nuisance flooding.” Whereas nuisance flooding along the Atlantic, Gulf, and West Coasts only occurred less than once per year at any given location in the 1950s, it now occurs on average about once every three months, the report says....
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Old 24-04-2015, 13:48   #1603
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Global warming has slowed but our climate models are WRONG | Daily Mail Online

Well well well......

I've been laughing at the climate models for years.
I love it when the MMGW Cultists have to panic on a Friday and it ruins their whole weekend.
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
Global warming has slowed but our climate models are WRONG | Daily Mail Online

Well well well......

I've been laughing at the climate models for years.
I love it when the MMGW Cultists have to panic on a Friday and it ruins their whole weekend.
Hmm. Doesn't look like you actually read the article, or the research paper it came from for that matter, did you?
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Old 24-04-2015, 14:12   #1605
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Re: Global Warming Opens Up Antarctic Waterways

... and the funny thing? This article is based on a dumbed down version of a research article written by - choke - climate scientists! So, who you gon' believe?
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