Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 11-03-2016, 13:04   #1
Registered User
 
Stella Polaris's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Stavanger
Boat: Ovni 445
Posts: 299
Caribbean to TDF routing advice

Hello all,

I realise that similar questions to this has been posted before, but since I am in the southern Caribbean and not in Europe or North America, I'm posting it.

I'm currently in Trinidad with my boat, preparing to head south. I'm looking at two options to get to Tierra del Fuego:
1. Head down the east coast of South America. My preference would be through an offshore route from somewhere in the Windwards to Fernando de Noronha, and then cruise south from there at a leisurely pace.
2. Go down the west coast. Go through the Panama Canal and probably sail straight to Ecuador. From there sail to Gambier or Easter Island, and from there to Puerto Montt, then head south at a leisurely pace. (No matter which way I go, I'm looking for the leisurely pace sooner or later )

Either way, we'd be heading out of the Caribbean in the course of June this year.

Both routes will have their challenges, but in my mind, and that's why I'm asking for routing advice, option two is better, even if it will be a longer route. I plan to spend at least two months sailing in Patagonia, so it would be nice to not have the wind on the nose the whole time while there. I've already talked to the Norwegian Polar Institute about sailing to Antarctica and coming southwards along the Chilean side, seems like it makes more sense. A dip down to Antarctica looks easier if you're heading into the Atlantic afterwards, especially since I'd like to swing by South Georgia on the way north.

I've already spoken to some of you about this and I'm much the wiser for it, and would like to hear if my thinking is sound ... or flawed.

- Andreas
__________________

__________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Our blog
Stella Polaris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2016, 14:33   #2
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29 49.16 N 82 25.82 W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 12,376
Re: Caribbean to TDF routing advice

Seems you already know the issues.

1. You have more or less 2000 nm dead against strong trade winds and a current that could run from 1.5-2.5 kts, also against you. You could try to hug the coast and do shorter hops from port to port but it's a wild coast with serious security concerns and limited resources but could be a real adventure. Definitely off the beaten path for the average cruiser.

2. The route you propose is a long way with long passages but more in tune with the winds.
__________________

__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2016, 14:50   #3
Registered User
 
Stella Polaris's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Stavanger
Boat: Ovni 445
Posts: 299
Re: Caribbean to TDF routing advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
... You could try to hug the coast and do shorter hops from port to port but it's a wild coast with serious security concerns and limited resources but could be a real adventure.
I'm not too crazy about serious security concerns, which is why I would do the offshore route, with all the negatives, you pointed out. I'm sure hugging the coastline isn't as bad as many make it out to be, but if I can avoid it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
... The route you propose is a long way with long passages but more in tune with the winds.
We are in agreement.

Thank you for your input!

- Andreas
__________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Our blog
Stella Polaris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2016, 16:28   #4
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29 49.16 N 82 25.82 W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 12,376
Re: Caribbean to TDF routing advice

If you haven't already, go to this link and you can read what others have to say about security along the north coast of Brazil. Also good info on the ports, marinas and other facilities.

Brazil —
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2016, 09:18   #5
Registered User
 
Stella Polaris's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Stavanger
Boat: Ovni 445
Posts: 299
Re: Caribbean to TDF routing advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
If you haven't already, go to this link and you can read what others have to say about security along the north coast of Brazil.
Thank you. I'm an avid reader of Noonsite for info. I was more concerned about the security after leaving Trinidad and before reaching Brazil, when hugging the coastline. Venezuela is the problem in my mind. In 9 out of 10 cases there won't be a problem and all of the countries along the north coast of South America are wonderful and people exceedingly friendly. If it was just me and a few guys we might have given it a go, but since it will be just me and my girlfriend, I want to be a bit more careful.
A friend of mine spent some time tied up on his boat in 2012, when he was boarded by pirates/criminals when sailing from Trinidad to Margarita. He honestly thought they would kill all of them. They were 3 male adults and a kid against 4 armed criminals. He didn't want to think what could have happened if there had been a good looking girl onboard. Since we all know that the Venezuelan coastline can be a problem, I'd rather avoid it.
- Andreas
__________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Our blog
Stella Polaris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2016, 09:19   #6
Registered User
 
captmikem's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Ft Lauderdale
Boat: KP 46
Posts: 317
Images: 2
Re: Caribbean to TDF routing advice

I have beat down the east coast of SA and it was not a lot of fun.

On the other hand, I had a spinnaker reach nearly the entire trip from the Galapagos all the way Easter island once we got the wind. Had the chute up for about 10 days, sailing was so perfect it was hard to stop once we got to Easter.
That was in February.

I headed west from there so can not speak of anything south of Easter.

Michael
__________________
captmikem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2016, 10:38   #7
Registered User
 
Stella Polaris's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Stavanger
Boat: Ovni 445
Posts: 299
Re: Caribbean to TDF routing advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by captmikem View Post
I have beat down the east coast of SA and it was not a lot of fun.
This mirrors everything I've read about that leg south. Good to hear from someone who has actually slogged it down that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by captmikem View Post
On the other hand, I had a spinnaker reach nearly the entire trip from the Galapagos all the way Easter island once we got the wind.
That's what I'm talking about! Set the windvane and enjoy the trip.

Thank you Michael, I appreciate your first hand knowledge!

- Andreas
__________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Our blog
Stella Polaris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2016, 11:46   #8
Registered User
 
Bill Balme's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Providence, RI
Boat: Outbound 44
Posts: 171
Re: Caribbean to TDF routing advice

Hi,

Are you planning this for 2016 or 2017?

I am organizing a rally for the Ocean Cruising Club that will go through the Panama in February or March 2017 and head south slowly along the west coast of SA - stopping in multiple places along the way, arriving in Patagonia in Valdivia in September and then heading south through the channels with Cape Horn in mind for January 2018.

Cruising with other boats will allay some of the security fears.

Let me know if you'd be interested in joining us.

Bill
__________________
Bill Balme
s/v Toodle-oo!
Outbound 44 #27
Bill Balme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2016, 12:19   #9
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Re: Caribbean to TDF routing advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post

1. You have more or less 2000 nm dead against strong trade winds and a current .
LESS! Much less! 1,950nms.

And 50 nms plugging into that would count.

I was planning that trip for this year to go see the Rio Olympics and have, kinda, chickened out and going to New York instead.

I sailed from Cape Verde Islands to Receife and that was dead easy. i would chuck in a 3rd option of Trinidad late May to near Azores to Canaries, Cape Verd leave November earlyish to Brazil to TDF for summer.

Its a bit of sailing but, except the North Atlantic bit, pretty easy.
__________________
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2016, 13:49   #10
Registered User
 
Stella Polaris's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Stavanger
Boat: Ovni 445
Posts: 299
Re: Caribbean to TDF routing advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Balme View Post
Are you planning this for 2016 or 2017?
Hi Bill. 2016. We're casting off from Trinidad at the end of May, wanting to get out of the Caribbean before the hurricane season sets in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Balme View Post
Let me know if you'd be interested in joining us.
I'll be a season ahead of you, but thank you for the invite. To be honest I'm not that worried about security on the west coast. We'll bypass the west coast of Colombia and maybe make a few stops along the coast in Ecuador before heading for Easter Island or Gambier. Then shoot down to Puerto Montt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
LESS! Much less! 1,950nms.
Is that it? End of discussion, I'm plowing straight south

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
i would chuck in a 3rd option of Trinidad late May to near Azores to Canaries, Cape Verd leave November earlyish to Brazil to TDF for summer.
I thought about it, but I'd be adding a lot of miles and a lot of time, to not make any headway south before November. Especially when I can get south by the western route with relatively favourable winds.

I'm pretty much decided on going the western route. Jimmy Cornell wrote the same in this article and I saw Evans Starzinger say the same in this post. When sailors with that much experience recommend something, it normally pays off to listen.

- Andreas
__________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Our blog
Stella Polaris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2016, 16:41   #11
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29 49.16 N 82 25.82 W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 12,376
Re: Caribbean to TDF routing advice

The trip would definitely be easier going south from the east side of the Atlantic but yes that would add a lot of miles.

By the way, maybe I was confused but the link to noonsite I was trying to link to the section for north coast Brazil. I agree the Venezuela coast is a no go area, at least in my opinion. I have friends from Venezuela and they're even scared to go home to see family. They are very careful where and how they travel.

I have heard enough negatives that the north coast of Brazil I think is not a whole lot better.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-03-2016, 13:19   #12
Registered User
 
Stella Polaris's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Stavanger
Boat: Ovni 445
Posts: 299
Re: Caribbean to TDF routing advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
I agree the Venezuela coast is a no go area, at least in my opinion. I have friends from Venezuela and they're even scared to go home to see family. They are very careful where and how they travel.
We are in total agreement. That's why if I was sailing south along the east coast of South America, I would bypass the entire area down to Fernando de Noronha.
I'm sure many people will disagree, but at least for me, that makes more sense at the moment. I say that not only because of security issues, but also because it would be a pain in the ass to sail down, beating against, wind, waves and current.

- Andreas
__________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Our blog
Stella Polaris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-03-2016, 14:34   #13
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Caribbean to TDF routing advice

Both are doable. The Brazilian coast route is hard on the wind all the way to the corner. And across the ITCZ too. I would time this one very well and go only when the forecast is perfect to get some easy miles before it becomes just a hard grind to the windward- MIND THE CURRENT - there is a conveyor belt current on the NE coast and it will chew at your hard earned miles. I mean it because I have sailed it. Check where it flows and stay away from it, well, away from the main stream of it.

The Panama route is the easier one but there is Panama up first where you lose time, money and stamina to get to the other side. Next you must sail out and cross the ITCZ too. But it is not the same ITCZ style as it is in the Atlantic/Brazilian route - you are on the continental (windward) side of the ITCZ and so the wx is completely unlike on the other side where you would be in the western part of the Atlantic ITCZ. Here you can expect a large(-r) area of light wind and no wind but also the seas will be calmer, flatter and easier to sail. And, oh, sure, the current will be against you too - but it will not be all that strong. Some boats I know opted for a most coastal route here - utill you get out of the squash. Also, on this route the second leg seems to be more boisterous and tougher until you get into the channels of Chile.

On the Brasilian route the part from the corner to la Plata is OK and then it turns nasty.

So, basically, it all boils down to which way you want to turn after the Horn.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-03-2016, 14:57   #14
Registered User
 
El Pinguino's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Punta Arenas ahorra
Boat: 39' Westerly Sealord
Posts: 3,952
Re: Caribbean to TDF routing advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by SettingSail2009 View Post
Hello all,...... I plan to spend at least two months sailing in Patagonia, so it would be nice to not have the wind on the nose the whole time while there. I've already talked to the Norwegian Polar Institute about sailing to Antarctica and coming southwards along the Chilean side, seems like it makes more sense. A dip down to Antarctica looks easier if you're heading into the Atlantic afterwards, especially since I'd like to swing by South Georgia on the way north......

- Andreas
Two months? Why the rush??
If planning a summer trip through the channels north to south would be the prefered option as N'lys are the order of the day.... but summer tends to be wet, overcast and not a lot of fun. EDIT....that is the bit between Golfo de Penas and the Cabo Froward.. north of Penas and east of the Andes the weather is quite different.
Going from the south into the Atlantic will mean you can visit the Falklands and South Georgia without drama. Call there southbound before going to TdF and you will have big problems if you then want to call at Ushuaia.
El Pinguino is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13-03-2016, 16:38   #15
Registered User
 
Stella Polaris's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Stavanger
Boat: Ovni 445
Posts: 299
Re: Caribbean to TDF routing advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
... So, basically, it all boils down to which way you want to turn after the Horn.
Ultimately we want to head into the South Pacific, so if we circumnavigate South America anti-clockwise, we would end up going through the Panama Canal twice. It's not the end of the World, because getting some time in the Caribbean in late 2017 to early 2018 would make it easy for parents to come and sail with us, which will be tougher once we're in the South Pacific, because it's so far to fly from Norway.
I need to put my thinking cap on, because I also need to figure out what to do during the 2017 hurricane season, whether it be the Brazilian coast or something else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
Two months? Why the rush??
I said "at least 2 months"

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
... summer tends to be wet, overcast and not a lot of fun.
Sounds like Norwegian summers! How's the spring (September - December) going south from Puerto Montt?

- Andreas
__________________

__________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Our blog
Stella Polaris is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
Caribbean, rib

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Routing advice in Germany: Netherlands (Delfzijil) --> Elbe, Kiel canal parito Our Community 18 15-06-2015 02:52
Advice for MarkJ routing St Martin - NYC mct General Sailing Forum 40 03-06-2015 11:28
Routing advice Chesapeake to Grenada in Spring gonzemoi Atlantic & the Caribbean 1 24-11-2013 14:23
Need Routing Advice ! sbauhaus Atlantic & the Caribbean 2 03-11-2011 18:26
Routing Choices - Canaries to the Caribbean MarkJ Atlantic & the Caribbean 9 28-10-2010 17:21



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:48.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.