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Old 08-04-2015, 13:46   #76
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Re: Boat for polar cruising

As the discussion is about what the boat should be like I think we can benefit from looking at what it should not be like too?

Norway

The boat seems a home built "copy" of Blake's boat. (They look similar, but Blake's boat looks even bigger).

I was surprised a big, purpose built boat like this could get overturned so easily.

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Old 08-04-2015, 14:35   #77
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Re: Boat for polar cruising

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Panope, Sorry if your are not former military or now confused. I undoubtedly made a mistake thinking your attention to detail exemplified my thinking as well trained and exacting in execution. Not a life endangering blunder so I'll just make a new decision and move ahead... I'm human and not afraid to continue learning every day.

Regarding the initial 1996-1999 Expedition, the second in 2001-02 and third in 2004-06 of the yacht APOSTOL ANDREW... quite an accomplishment so early on in recent history of what seems like just a few years ago... meaning its still after decades of world countries attempts a rather recent accomplishment.

I think this snip from their website provides additional perspective "The sailing was carried out under support of the Russian NAVY; the Russian Air Force; the Government of Moscow; the Prefecture of the North administrative region of Moscow; the Governments of Tver town, Tverskaya and Kamchatskaya regions."

You will note in the NWP records that Government ships, icebreakers, submarines etc are now not being listed for obvious reasons. World Governments have deep pockets with vast resources unlike private vessel owners... and do not make public announcements when transiting the Arctic for strategic reasons.

I'm still amazed that an "Adventure Club" can find sponsors and individuals to support something which has been called by forum members as old hat, easy to do and just for the record books... lol It is clear which type of persons share the comradery to search the waters beyond the near shore horizon... they are amazing - KUDOS for achieving three record Expeditions!

Want to know who is truly the most amazing living yachtsman? David Scott Cowper (David Scott Cowper - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) Broken both sailing and motor yacht records in both directions... doing most circumnavigations solo. Pay attention to his latest metal motor yacht POLAR BOUND.

See you outdoors... on the water!
As you point out rightly, not every expedition benefits from that kind of support...Navy, Air force and sponsors.
Very honest from them to make it clear.
Else, I appreciate your positive comment (not always the case ;-) )

I cannot retrieve the links, you will have to take my word for it, Apostol Andrey, at least the hull, has not been built in a regular shipward, she was built in a Russian Navy shipward.
Lucky Russians !
;-)
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Old 08-04-2015, 16:06   #78
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Re: Boat for polar cruising

This young Dutch fellow built his own boat for arctic cruising. Sails out of Halifax. I meet Him a few years ago. He runs charters on his boat.

Bagheera Sailing
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Old 08-04-2015, 16:25   #79
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Re: Boat for polar cruising

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This young Dutch fellow built his own boat for artic cruising. Sails out of Halifax. I meet Him a few years ago. He runs charters on his boat.

Bagheera Sailing
And note his personal boat is steel... and this is who will be building the Adventure 40 (FRP) for John of Morgan's Cloud... claims $200K for a sail-away high latitude yacht.

Start here then search for more content re the A-40: Adventure 40 Hull Design

See you outdoors... on the water!
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Old 08-04-2015, 16:31   #80
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Re: Boat for polar cruising

I have no problems taking my GRP boat into ice like this frinstance ( see pics below) but I would not take her into ice such as shown in the 3rd pic down on that Bagheera site. Not because I would be worried about damage, more worried that I would just get stuck....and steel will get stuck just as quick as GRP.
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Old 08-04-2015, 18:32   #81
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Re: Boat for polar cruising

I am not 100% sure A1 ocean class (/whatever) plastic boat is enough. I believe there may be some higher standards for ice.

Just look at Framm.

This does not imply A1 plastick cannot. I just mean there are better things around for this kind of adventure.

b.
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Old 09-04-2015, 10:28   #82
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Re: Boat for polar cruising

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Maybe we need to re-think our approach to high latitude cruising... to an "Adventure Club". Its hard to say it will not work with the APOSTOL ANDREY having completed not only passages but THREE CIRCUMNAVIGATIONS.

Do you think there are enough people who love the outdoors... on the water... to join a "club", i.e. for NW Passages? If a NWP was to cost $50K and you planned a voyage every other year that would give members 24 months to contribute their share of the expedition budget. So lets say there are 10 legs to the voyage with 4 open berths per leg. 10 legs x 4 berths = 40 berths/voyage or $50K / 40 persons = $1,250 per person per leg / 24 months = $53/month plus airfare and associated arrival/departure lodging/meals etc.

I wonder if people are interested in working smarter to enjoy boating by sharing expenses through a club?

What say you? Would you do it? Sure beats buying your own expedition boat. Didn't travel clubs used to be popular? I remember one that actually had their own Boeing 727 aircraft. Hummm....

Being retired has its benefits... time and funds to use as I would like to... cruising!

See you outdoors... on the water!
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Old 09-04-2015, 13:52   #83
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Re: Boat for polar cruising

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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
I have no problems taking my GRP boat into ice like this frinstance ( see pics below) but I would not take her into ice such as shown in the 3rd pic down on that Bagheera site. Not because I would be worried about damage, more worried that I would just get stuck....and steel will get stuck just as quick as GRP.
Your ice looks great compared to this information... check out this advise: “Ice Tactics” Part 1. Negotiating a Brash Ice Barrier By Captain Jesse Osborn | EMPIRICUS EMBARKS

Be safe by staying out of high concentrations of ice...
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Old 09-04-2015, 20:42   #84
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Re: Boat for polar cruising

I have not had time to dig through much of this but it looks like there could be some interesting info:

Icebreaking Program - Ice Navigation in Canadian Waters - CCG - Icebreaking
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Old 13-04-2015, 10:01   #85
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Re: Boat for polar cruising

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Originally Posted by GG2015 View Post
Maybe we need to re-think our approach to high latitude cruising... to an "Adventure Club". Its hard to say it will not work with the APOSTOL ANDREY having completed not only passages but THREE CIRCUMNAVIGATIONS.

Do you think there are enough people who love the outdoors... on the water... to join a "club", i.e. for NW Passages? If a NWP was to cost $50K and you planned a voyage every other year that would give members 24 months to contribute their share of the expedition budget. So lets say there are 10 legs to the voyage with 4 open berths per leg. 10 legs x 4 berths = 40 berths/voyage or $50K / 40 persons = $1,250 per person per leg / 24 months = $53/month plus airfare and associated arrival/departure lodging/meals etc.

I wonder if people are interested in working smarter to enjoy boating by sharing expenses through a club?

What say you? Would you do it? Sure beats buying your own expedition boat. Didn't travel clubs used to be popular? I remember one that actually had their own Boeing 727 aircraft. Hummm....

Being retired has its benefits... time and funds to use as I would like to... cruising!

See you outdoors... on the water!
S/V BEST EXPLORER cruising club seems to be doing well... Northwest Passage 2015 : S/V BEST EXPLORER (NWP2012West4) continues their cruising club voyages

Anyone interested in the Club share of the expenses approach? If there are I'd consider using my 55' steel expedition trawler... just an idea.

See you outdoors... on the water!
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Old 13-04-2015, 12:43   #86
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Re: Boat for polar cruising

Another Russian : Peter 1







and a Dutchman Campina - Henke de Velde :


http://smalltridesign.com/Trimaran-A...interview.html


Glory of the Sea : Aluminium Berret Racoupeau design (no,longer for sale)


http://sailboat-for-sale.periple.com...boat-index.php
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Old 14-04-2015, 05:19   #87
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Re: Boat for polar cruising

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I was surprised a big, purpose built boat like this could get overturned so easily.

b.
From their FB, I have runned a Translation App to translate from Polish...not very accurate.
Skipper mentions a wave 10m + high coming from an unsuspected direction (not from the direction the "regular" waves they were dealing with, Skipper describes conditions rough but still manageable).
This single wave "spinned the keel" (I do not understand what it means).
Hit the boat sideway ??
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Old 14-04-2015, 06:48   #88
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Re: Boat for polar cruising

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From their FB, I have runned a Translation App to translate from Polish...not very accurate.
Skipper mentions a wave 10m + high coming from an unsuspected direction (not from the direction the "regular" waves they were dealing with, Skipper describes conditions rough but still manageable).
This single wave "spinned the keel" (I do not understand what it means).
Hit the boat sideway ??
Normally, 10 meter nor 20 meter waves overturn any boat. It takes a breaking wave, or a very steep wave just at the breaking point (at the breaking point does not imply it will break at all).

On the video, the boat inside was pretty swamped. And the mess... inside/out.

So, whatever wave they met, this design is not what you want where you can get conditions that normally may upturn a boat. You want not just stability and resistance to white water but also water-tightness, and lockers designed so that your stuff stays put.

And rig that can take some abuse before it snaps, not off the mill, fine-wall extrusions.

IMHO

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Old 14-04-2015, 07:23   #89
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Re: Boat for polar cruising

Air/wind pressure or force on rigging and mast (through sails) do not compare at all with water pressure.


If masts would not break, decks would.
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Old 14-04-2015, 09:09   #90
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Re: Boat for polar cruising

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Air/wind pressure or force on rigging and mast (through sails) do not compare at all with water pressure.


If masts would not break, decks would.
Surely you are thinking FG, maaaybe alloy, not steel?
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