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Old 22-02-2011, 18:55   #61
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Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

My gut feeling is that this problem will get BIGGER before smaller, the other problem is that the area of ¨attack¨can only grow! The idea of not going into those waters wont work as there is just to much commercial traffic that has to go through there! The chain of ¨mother ships¨ will grow and we will risk facing pirates over a much bigger area just like there were 300-400 years ago! Many of the so called ¨former fishermen¨ will never have seen a fishing net in their lives, nor would they have any interest in any other job as it would not come close to what they can earn doing this! Its going to take the BIG boys sitting down around a table and working this out, I love the idea of boats loaded with seals or the SAS looking like ¨tourists¨on a little trip! To leave that area and think the problem will go away is very nieve in my book!
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Old 22-02-2011, 18:59   #62
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Re: Idea to reduce Somali piracy?

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Originally Posted by ozskipper View Post

So in other words, The UN itself does an amazing job around the world. But its the Security Council that needs fixing.

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So now we swing this thread from piracy, the UN, and to the Security Council?
I thought I had A.D.D.. It's a conspiracy.
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Old 22-02-2011, 19:04   #63
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Re: Idea to reduce Somali piracy?

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So now we swing this thread from piracy, the UN, and to the Security Council?
I thought I had A.D.D.. It's a conspiracy.

Good Point. further to that, it got me researching the UN web site on piracy. So back on topic. Appologies for the previous OT rant

Heres some great links.

Pirates off Somalia committing more violence despite naval patrols – Ban=

Senior UN official urges broad-based approach to fight piracy off Somali coast=

UN trust fund backs projects in fight against piracy off Somali coast=

Security Council suggests possible tribunals to deal with Somali piracy problem=

Seychelles to launch UN-backed courts to combat piracy=

Also you can type 'pirates' into the search bar and find out exactly what the UN is doing about it.

Cheers
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Old 22-02-2011, 19:09   #64
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Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

The U.S. Navy may need a new home port in that part of the world soon. I say we ( the U.S.) find us ( the U.S. ) a Somali willing to sell us ( the U.S.) one of their ports. We evict the the inhabatince ( now tresspassers ) and park our ( the U.S.) ships in our (the U.S.) new port. We let the SEAL,s ( U.S.) train by hunting Priates ( Somalis ), boats with holes in the hulls tend to sink. The world is a bad place , we ( the U.S.) need to stop worrying about what other countries think and do what is best for us( the U.S. ). rick
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Old 22-02-2011, 19:12   #65
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Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

I enjoyed that second article, ozskipper. It stands to reason that a the solution needs to be more than just sea-based enforcement. The idea of strengthening the transitional Somali government while maintaining a strong naval presence at sea makes a lot of sense.
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Old 22-02-2011, 19:14   #66
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Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

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The U.S. Navy may need a new home port in that part of the world soon. I say we ( the U.S.) find us ( the U.S. ) a Somali willing to sell us ( the U.S.) one of their ports. We evict the the inhabatince ( now tresspassers ) and park our ( the U.S.) ships in our (the U.S.) new port. We let the SEAL,s ( U.S.) train by hunting Priates ( Somalis ), boats with holes in the hulls tend to sink. The world is a bad place , we ( the U.S.) need to stop worrying about what other countries think and do what is best for us( the U.S. ). rick
Nice idea, But i have two words for you. Iraq and Afganistan! Sadly, it would lead to too many dead US soldiers.

But if you stick a few Seals on the back of every second freighter each armed with light missile launcher, the problem would resolve itself very quickly

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Old 22-02-2011, 19:18   #67
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Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

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I enjoyed that second article, ozskipper. It stands to reason that a the solution needs to be more than just sea-based enforcement. The idea of strengthening the transitional Somali government while maintaining a strong naval presence at sea makes a lot of sense.
Agreed, to a point. Most of these pirates are very poor and hungry ( not the king pins- the foot soldiers). Get them fed, look after thier families and piracy will dissolve over a period.

Weapons will still be a problem in the area for years though. As a result of the cold war there are AK47s everywhere throughout the region. Imagine trying to find a million machine guns in a hurry.

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Old 22-02-2011, 19:20   #68
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Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

The international laws of the high seas.
PREAMBLE TO THE UNITED NATIONS CONVENTION ON THE LAW OF THE SEA



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Old 22-02-2011, 19:21   #69
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Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

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Originally Posted by rberrey View Post
The U.S. Navy may need a new home port in that part of the world soon. I say we ( the U.S.) find us ( the U.S. ) a Somali willing to sell us ( the U.S.) one of their ports. We evict the the inhabatince ( now tresspassers ) and park our ( the U.S.) ships in our (the U.S.) new port. We let the SEAL,s ( U.S.) train by hunting Priates ( Somalis ), boats with holes in the hulls tend to sink. The world is a bad place , we ( the U.S.) need to stop worrying about what other countries think and do what is best for us( the U.S. ). rick

How about that port my dad built in the early 60s which we left for the Russians. I wonder if they are still there.
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Old 22-02-2011, 19:23   #70
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Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

Iraq and Afganistan would have worked if we had done a lot more evicting. We can even build condos and sell time shares to pay for whole project. rick
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Old 22-02-2011, 19:34   #71
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Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

I am a fan of an absolutely disproportionate response, of the "kick my cat, I'll kill your dog" variety. Yeah, it may cause some ripples in public opinion in the short term, but this is a situation where, politically, strategically and tactically, you really are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

We know where they live.
We know that there are no legitimate exports from Somalia.
We know that those who are not hostages are willingly living off the profits of piracy.
We know that they know that our concerns about collateral damage and saving hostages makes us careful and timid, encouraging them to take more prizes and more hostages.



Time to load up a flight of BUFFS to wipe out land based assets and A-10s to sink the fleet. All of it. Every damned boat. Phluck a whole bunch of BS about "fishing boats" and "indigenous subsistence."
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Old 22-02-2011, 19:37   #72
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Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

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Somalians don't care if they live or die

First of all, let me debunk this myth. After they shot the crew and passengers of Quest today, some of the Somalians immediately ran up on deck, threw down their weapons and raised their hands in surrender knowing that the American military will not shoot people who do surrender. So, evidently they care if they live or die.
I know that some people don't like violence and some will rabidly disagree with this, but to be brutally honest, violence has solved more issues in the history of mankind than all other acts combined. I didn't make it up; it's just the way it is. So with that, there are 3 things I see to stop the piracy. One is to find a way to disassemble the pirates’ business plan. Two, go in loaded for bear and take them out. Or three, do like the British and the Spanish did with the pirates in the 18th and 19th centuries. I'm sure there are others that will work over time but, there doesn't seem to any more time left for some.
My condolences to the families of the crew and passengers of the Quest.
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Old 22-02-2011, 19:58   #73
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Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

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"...acts ...by Somali citizens, ...constitutes an act of War? "

Acts of War are committed by GOVERNMENTS. The behavior of their citizens has nothing to do with it.

Or haven't you been listening to the arguments about how to prosecute "civilian combatants" from various countries that have been waging a terrorist action against the US, Spain England, India, and other places over the last decade?
To be hones hellosailor, I am pretty ignorant about the whole legal aspect.

I do remember Bush after 9-11 stating that….. any country that harbors terrorists (read in this case pirates) ……are committing an act of war and it seemed justification enough for a coalition to act upon Afghanistan.

Perhaps the key to this piracy issue begins with a unanimous legal interpretation of the Somali situation, since one country acting alone will always be criticized for having ulterior motives.

Thanks Ozskipper for the education and related articles.
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Old 22-02-2011, 20:13   #74
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Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

Having visited Somalia several times, however briefly, back in the eighties when Haddassi was still alive and ruling Ethiopia, I think a strongly worded diplomatic note from the US State Department delivered by a large neutron bomb into Mogadishu is the answer. These people have been savages for centuries and unless you have been there and observed first hand the culture and thought processes of the indigenous Somali's, you know nothing of which many of you speak. We seem to view the behaviors of the pirates through the prism of western culture, values and expectations which is nonsensical. Don't intend this observation to be political but to solve the problem we need to look at root causes and alternatives based upon factual observations of the problem over time. This issue has been a fact of life in the area for centuries which hold very different values, a tribal view of their world which only extends at most a couple of hundred kilometers from where their family has been for generations and a culture that holds human life in very low regard. Western society is conditioned to look for some good in all people regardless of their situation. We cannot conceive of a group of folks who hold such different values than the west... they must understand if only we find the key to 'show them the way'. In a very general way, this attitude has driven our response to any issue anywhere in the world that doesn't fit with our view of what is 'Right'. I believe we are about to get a hugh wakeup call that our cruising fraternity will hear long before the rest of us who live stateside. Capt Phil
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Old 22-02-2011, 20:36   #75
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Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

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... Western society is conditioned to look for some good in all people regardless of their situation. We cannot conceive of a group of folks who hold such different values than the west... they must understand if only we find the key to 'show them the way'. In a very general way, this attitude has driven our response to any issue anywhere in the world that doesn't fit with our view of what is 'Right'. I believe we are about to get a hugh wakeup call that our cruising fraternity will hear long before the rest of us who live stateside. Capt Phil
In Canada, we have large Somalian communities.

Talking to LEO's I know, and yes, it is generalizing, but they treat their women horribly, and blame the LEO's for not solving the numerous murders that happen in the community, yet no one, no one at all, within that community will come forward and identify any of the perpetrators.

Methinks I like the Russian naval response; capture pirate, hold them enough days to strip them of guns, ammo, water and gas, and then let them go in their "fishing boats".... 1500 knots from land... wishing them god speed in reaching it safely.

If a few more Russians would capture some of the pirates, perhaps they would learn their lessons.
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