Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by TaoJones

He was merely stating the standard view common in the nineteenth century, Phil. I wish I could say it no longer prevails.

TaoJones

Sorry Tao.... just I know what some of the 19th century 'Humanity' dished out by whites in India and Africa consisted of...

[atoll]

female circumcision in somalia,
read this then re-evaluate the savage vs human issues.


http://siteresources.worldbank.org/I...nal_Report.pdf

[TaoJones]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Sorry Tao.... just I know what some of the 19th century 'Humanity' dished out by whites in India and Africa consisted of...

And that was precisely his point, as I read what he posted. He was mockingly stating what was widely regarded as obvious at one time . . . in other words, he isn't stating that view as his own, he's belittling it.

TaoJones

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by atoll

female circumcision in somalia,
read this then re-evaluate the savage vs human issues.


http://siteresources.worldbank.org/I...nal_Report.pdf

It aint much fun at 14 for a boy either mate....

[GavinC]

You guys didn't like my thoughts on drones and miniguns. Perhaps that was too harsh, after all. I think we should send in a team of self-help counselors, anger management counselors, provide coffee, tea and cupcakes for them all while we try to counsel them on their errant ways. Oh... and pass out more bibles. This is key because once they all start catching on to how cool Jesus is they will stop stealing and killing people because they must be rational normal human beings under the surface, right?

[atoll]

Originally Posted by GavinC

You guys didn't like my thoughts on drones and miniguns. Perhaps that was too harsh, after all. I think we should send in a team of self-help counselors, anger management counselors, provide coffee, tea and cupcakes for them all while we try to counsel them on their errant ways. Oh... and pass out more bibles. This is key because once they all start catching on to how cool Jesus is they will stop stealing and killing people because they must be rational normal human beings under the surface, right?

perhaps dropping 5 tons of bibles from 20 000 feet on the port of bayal would be a good start............ as a humanitarian mission........

[Woodchuck]

Originally Posted by TaoJones

And that was precisely his point, as I read what he posted. He was mockingly stating what was widely regarded as obvious at one time . . . in other words, he isn't stating that view as his own, he's belittling it.

TaoJones

Exactly, TaoJones. I meant it as a criticism of some pretty racist statements earlier in the thread. I should have made myself more clear.

[pullord]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Somalia is a failed state,and most governments don't want to get involved with that tar baby. Or does the phrase "Blackhawk down" sound unfamiliar?

What you do with failed states, terrorists, and uncontrolled thugs is fairly simple: You declare war or conduct warlike acts of aggression, and you tell the bleeding hearts to go helix themselves while you take care of business. then you have to deal with the flack, damage control, lawsuits, international complaints...But if you can't handle that, you shouldn't be running a government.

The problem these days is money. One US citizen's life is valued at approximately $3-8 million dollars, depending on which agency is going the valuation. The FAA is among the cheapest. So, four citizens were killed after several year, the wereguild for their deaths would amount to about $20 million. If you can't run the war effort for less than, say, five million a year? Government logic is that it is cheaper to let one die every year, than spend the extra money. And that's exactly how it is calculated and done.

It takes a LOT of po'd taxpayers to buck that system.

Of course, Congress can issue letters of marque and reprisal and allow good old boys to conduct private shooting tours at zero government expense...but that gets back into problems with foreign nations and treaties, letters of marque and reprisal are considered primitive, unsociable, illegal, and outright irresponsible by the bleeding hearts.

There's never a Roosevelt in office when you need one, is there?

--N.B think you meant to type war effort costs 5 million a day or more i would think from kuwait rescue in 91,,bill still climbing on iraq/afgan problem..perhaps solution is to give pirate leader who makes public press announcements a seat on the U.N. as this seems to be guy in charge of somalia,,was just watching BBC news and they mentioned over 700 are hostages at this time according to some "expert" who has authored books on this piracy problem which he claims seldom affects large container ships as they have high freeboard and dont stop moving fast plus many are now carrying private armed security,,so the pirates are picking up the slack grabbing private yachts and i would think the expensive yachts are the target,,as for you "lets shoot em" guys out their keep in mind the news said there were 17 pirates on board of which 2 were allready dead before the seals boarded and 2 more pirates died fighting the seals,,appartantly the navy boat was 600 yards astern and the pirates fired a rocket at the navy ship which caused the seals to launch a rescuemisson with a couple of RIBS,,dont know about you guys but repelling a dozen "skinnies" at once might be possible if i got full auto shooting through a porthole surrounded by bulletproof hull but id definitely just choose to write that heellhole off my cruizer wishlist,,dont think no diplomatic solution is on the horizon when it involves an area of lawlessness so large,,perhaps the "muslim brotherhood" is allready running the area as the "news" says Egypt will soon have "muslim brotherhood" govt,,is this inprovement or disaster?,, cheers and fairwinds

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by atoll

female circumcision in somalia,
read this then re-evaluate the savage vs human issues.


http://siteresources.worldbank.org/I...nal_Report.pdf

Page 26 pic starts with "being aware of the problem".

What if it is not a problem to them?

[boatman61]

A copy and paste..
Increasingly violent hijackings
But in recent months, there have been growing reports of more aggression with hostages being beaten and generally roughed up by their captors.
Continue reading the main story “Start Quote

Once holding hostages, the pirates are under stress and become extremely nervous for fear of being interdicted by the navy”

End Quote Alan Cole United Nations Office On Drugs And Crime
"That to some extent is as a result of the piracy community changing," says Alan Cole of the United Nations Office On Drugs And Crime.
"It has moved from being formerly disgruntled fishermen to those who come from more of a fighting background, and that has resulted in increased levels of violence."
There have been several cases of navies apparently successfully using force to free captives.
In January, South Korean navy commandos rescued the 21 crew members of a freighter - the Samho Jewelry. Officials said several pirates were killed.
Also last month, Malaysian naval commandos stormed the MT Bunga Laurel, a chemical tanker, in the Gulf Of Aden, freeing 23 Filipino crew.
These attacks were followed by warnings that with the stakes now higher, other hostages might be in more danger.
"It is a fair game that has started. Everybody will react if his life is in danger," one pirate source told the Reuters news agency, following the death of the four Americans and at least two pirates on Tuesday.
"We should not agree to be killed and let the hostages be freed," the sources added.
The UN says interviews with young pirates being held in prisons revealed the pirates tend to be increasingly desperate at sea.
Unlike the former fishermen who used to dominate the activity, the new breed of pirate often gets lost and needs to board a vessel to get food and water in order to get home.
"Once holding hostages, the pirates are under stress and become extremely nervous for fear of being interdicted by the navy - so there is always a risk that they commit a violent act such as this," Mr Cole says.
"But the world's navies are quite entitled to use force in self defence of their own citizens or anyone else's citizens," he adds.

[tager]

Don't underestimate the influence of religion. I am atheist, but I have little doubt that an effective religious movement in Somalia could end piracy there.

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by delmarrey

The problem is Somalia needs a government. And until someone takes over and sets up laws/regulations its just going to continue to be bad lands/waters run by the ones with the biggest & best armed gang. And I'm sure the people that live/survive there are not having any fun either with their internal wars.

Well stated. Until there's a government any solution will be temporary and very expensive. IMHO

[Pelagic]

Perhaps one of our members with reading in International Law can explain to us;

Whether these repeated acts of piracy, perpetrated by Somali citizens, who are allowed safe haven by the national government to hold and negotiate freely in Somaliland, constitutes an act of War?

Seems to me that once the international community makes that decision, real negotiations or actions to maintain the rule of law at sea can begin.

[hellosailor]

"...acts ...by Somali citizens, ...constitutes an act of War? "

Acts of War are committed by GOVERNMENTS. The behavior of their citizens has nothing to do with it.

Or haven't you been listening to the arguments about how to prosecute "civilian combatants" from various countries that have been waging a terrorist action against the US, Spain England, India, and other places over the last decade?

[ozskipper]

Originally Posted by psneeld

I like the SEAL idea...

The UN is a totally toothless organization...probably why we didn't or still haven't paid some huge dues thing to it in years...we host the building...the rest is a joke...nice idea...but when you have to deal with socialists...all negotiating is fruitless.

And you are correct...trying to deal with desparate, lawless people...yep...like trying to teach pigs to fly.

I dont think you know exactly what the UN is. Many people think its just a joint armed force. Its not. The UN provides humanitarian services, Economic support, business liason, Social development, Financial support and so many other services to developed and developing nations.

It does however have the security council headed by the permanent members China, France, Russion fed, USA and UK known as The Five. Then there are the ten other nations that are elected to sit each term. Within "The Five", each nation has a right of Veto. The other ten nations get the right to vote, but not to veto.

One "could" say the UN Security Council needs fixing. Even though a democratic vote of veto was passed by France, the US, UK, Aus and others still invaded Iraq. Which in itself was undemocratic and a breach of the policy agreed on by The Five itself. ( not starting an Iraq thread- just using it as an example of the system not working, when other nations breach the guidelines).

So in other words, The UN itself does an amazing job around the world. But its the Security Council that needs fixing.

Cheers
Oz