Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 22-02-2011, 15:44   #31
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: Idea to reduce Somali piracy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Here's but one criticism of the UN...I could post or write a dozen more...but people believe what they want.

Wiki...

"Role of elite nations
There has been criticism that the five permanent members of the United Nations Security Council (Russia, the United States, China, the United Kingdom, France), who are all nuclear powers, have created an exclusive nuclear club whose powers are unchecked. Unlike the General Assembly, the United Nations Security Council does not have true international representation. This has led to accusations that the UNSC only addresses the strategic interests and political motives of the permanent members, especially in humanitarian interventions: for example, protecting the oil-rich Kuwaitis in 1991 but poorly protecting resource-poor Rwandans in 1994.[1]"
You say that is written as a criticism - and it probably was written that way. I think it was quite accurate, but not a bad thing about the UN - it's just how the world is and still would be without the UN.

Quote:
No one in the US government (which I served 23 years in) that I ever talked to had any belief that the UN was anything more than a good old boys club.
Not entirely sure of the nuances for "a good old boys club" - but, I've phoned up the UN - and they asked me not to shoot you over it

Quote:
All permanent solutions have multiple layers...fixing the problem is different than preventing todays piracy. Basic law enforcement from the beginning of time has shown that cops on the beat and the inevitable probability of getting caught with punishment is what deters crime...not just the law or the "threat" of punishment. The "guaranteed" thought that a US SEAL team bullet will pass through your head is what will put the biggest and most immediate stop to piracy...everything else is just smoke and mirrors...of course giving every Somali about 5 million may work just as well and is probably cheaper in the long run than operating a carrier task force.
+1

I would add though not solely certainty of getting caught, but coupled with the certainty that getting caught will have a cost not worth paying vs the reward. Obviously not an approach for everybody, but for those there be spiritual education. "There is no god"- "Looksee..........."

In many circumstances being dead can really take the shine off yer day


FWIW a key part of my solution is to divide Somalia into 3 (Somaliland and Puntland I beleive are pretty functional - or at least enough to support into Nationhood). I call it self empowerment of the stake holders.
__________________

__________________
David_Old_Jersey is offline  
Old 22-02-2011, 15:58   #32
Moderator Emeritus
 
Pblais's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hayes, VA
Boat: Gozzard 36
Posts: 8,700
Images: 15
Send a message via Skype™ to Pblais
Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

Quote:
Accordingly, pirates, and those who advocate kill on sight countermeasures, both exhibit signs of savagery and extremism.
They may not be right but they can at least do the very least that they know how. One step above nothing is whining. I dare anyone to do or say less with more determination. It is attitude at the end of the day!
__________________

__________________
Paul Blais
s/v Bright Eyes Gozzard 36
37 15.7 N 76 28.9 W
Pblais is offline  
Old 22-02-2011, 15:59   #33
Registered User
 
Zednotzee's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Oromocto, New Brunswick
Boat: 1976 Alberg 37 Yawl hull 172
Posts: 394
Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by perchance View Post
The UN? Don't make me laugh. That bunch of hand wringing, wishy washy idiots couldn't come to a decision on Rwanda when the evidence of genocide was staring them in the face. Do you honestly think they will come up with an enforceable solution in our lifetime?
Wow! You mean there's two Canadians who haven't bought into the Pearson/Peacekeeping/UN BS propaganda?

I've been on UN missions, & it's no wonder to me none of them have ever accomplished anything. The closest they've ever come is a draw, in Korea, longest standing ceasefire in history. Every other mission has been a failure- Egypt, the Balkans (didn't turn around until NATO took over), Somalia, Rwanda, Cyprus (as Lewis MacKenzie said, even when peacekeeping works, it's a failure).

The most workable solution is to force a convoy system- vessels below a certain tonnage should be required to wait until they can be organized into a convoy. There's no other way to protect them with limited resources.
__________________
Facts are for people who can't create their own truth. Fact.- Bucky Katt
Zednotzee is offline  
Old 22-02-2011, 16:07   #34
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 238
Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

Quote:
I've been on UN missions, & it's no wonder to me none of them have ever accomplished anything.
It's the powder blue hats, that's all. It's hard to fear someone wearing a powder puff on their head. Now, if they were black with skulls and crossed bones, well then......!
__________________
Failure is most often times a temporary condition........
Giving up is what makes it permanent.



Bill Burgette is offline  
Old 22-02-2011, 16:29   #35
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Land-locked at the moment :(
Posts: 189
Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by delmarrey View Post
What is your definition of "savage" or "extremist"?

I'd say savages is a valid claim. I just think they are no more savage then say...gang members in Detroit or drug cartels. I wouldn't agree that they are wild violent crazed beasts that should be shot from afar whenever something looking like one pokes it's head out.

When I think extremist, I imagine something like Glen Beck. Someone ruled by radical ideals not grounded in reality (maybe with a dollop of paranoia). As far as I can tell these pirates are pirating for profit and not for political or religious reasons.

(I also hate when people bring up the "oh 'those' people are crazy enough to blow themselves up..blah blah." If Christianity was spun so that good things might happen to those who "killed themselves for the cause" we'd have americans strapping bombs to their chest.)
__________________
Event_Horizon is offline  
Old 22-02-2011, 16:35   #36
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Endeavour 42CC
Posts: 1,182
Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

require all vessels in a 25 mile wide corridor to have an AIS. Check in prior to entering the corridor. Any vessel entering the corridor without an AIS is sunk.
Early on we can fire warning shots. ANYONE without the AIS is fair game.
__________________
gettinthere is offline  
Old 22-02-2011, 16:37   #37
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2011
Boat: Hirondelle Catamaran 23'
Posts: 35
Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

I meant "savage" in the nineteenth century sense. As in "brown people who are not quite as human as us white people."
By "extremist" I meant to differentiate between the billion or so Muslims who would probably not blow themselves up for any reason and the very few who would.
Also, I was referring to Somalis, not Somali pirates. In my mind, the particular crowd of pirates that took the Quest qualify as both savages and extremists.
__________________
Omnia Mea Mecum Porto - Ovid (Everything I have I carry with me.)
Woodchuck is offline  
Old 22-02-2011, 16:42   #38
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,189
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodchuck View Post
I meant "savage" in the nineteenth century sense. As in "brown people who are not quite as human as us white people."
By "extremist" I meant to differentiate between the billion or so Muslims who would probably not blow themselves up for any reason and the very few who would.
Also, I was referring to Somalis, not Somali pirates. In my mind, the particular crowd of pirates that took the Quest qualify as both savages and extremists.
LOL.... where do you get the idea white is more human than brown.... we're all bloody savages under the skin...
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is offline  
Old 22-02-2011, 16:43   #39
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Erie Canal between Rochester & Buffalo
Boat: 1970 23' O'day pop-top
Posts: 471
Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

Reduce Piracy?
The New York City Police could do it easy enough;
NYPD Stopped 600,000 People in 2010 - Local News - New York, NY - msnbc.com
__________________
kenny chaos is offline  
Old 22-02-2011, 16:50   #40
Senior Cruiser
 
Therapy's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: W Florida
Boat: The Jon boat still, plus a 2007 SeaCat.
Posts: 6,894
Images: 4
Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gettinthere View Post
require all vessels in a 25 mile wide corridor to have an AIS. Check in prior to entering the corridor. Any vessel entering the corridor without an AIS is sunk.
Early on we can fire warning shots. ANYONE without the AIS is fair game.

Sure.

I lose my AIS because your cousin wired it wrong and you shoot me......

No....wait........you lose your AIS because your cousin wired it wrong and I shoot you.

Yea, thats better.
__________________
Therapy is offline  
Old 22-02-2011, 16:51   #41
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Erie Canal between Rochester & Buffalo
Boat: 1970 23' O'day pop-top
Posts: 471
Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

Easy Cheesy-
The VERY FIRST SENTENCE READS:"I meant "savage" in the nineteenth century sense."
__________________
kenny chaos is offline  
Old 22-02-2011, 16:53   #42
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,189
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Event_Horizon View Post
Annnnnd wow. So to summarize. You think that all Somalis are less human than us white people? That is impressively racist. I suppose the only good thing is that your message is so foul and ignorant that even the uninformed and uneducated can recognize it as nonsense.
WHO's yowz calin unedicated an igmarunt.... eh... eh...
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is offline  
Old 22-02-2011, 16:54   #43
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Endeavour 42CC
Posts: 1,182
Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

The check in point at the beginning of the corridor is in part to verify you have a working AIS. Once you are in the corridor it would be easy to keep track of you. Other boats approaching from right angles to the corridor would be easy to differentiate. A boat that looses its AIS would get a flyover first to ID. it could be managed. Radio calls, etc can suppliment the situation. All similar to a VTS scheme in any major harbor.
__________________
gettinthere is offline  
Old 22-02-2011, 16:55   #44
CF Adviser
Moderator Emeritus
 
TaoJones's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Montrose, Colorado
Posts: 9,850
Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
LOL.... where do you get the idea white is more human than brown.... we're all bloody savages under the skin...
He was merely stating the standard view common in the nineteenth century, Phil. I wish I could say it no longer prevails.

TaoJones
__________________
"Your vision becomes clear only when you look into your own heart. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks within, awakens."
Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961)
TaoJones is offline  
Old 22-02-2011, 16:55   #45
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Land-locked at the moment :(
Posts: 189
Re: Idea to Reduce Somali Piracy ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
WHO's yowz calin unedicated an igmarunt.... eh... eh...
BUT YOU ARE SO DAMN PRETTY.....
__________________

__________________
Event_Horizon is offline  
Closed Thread

Tags
piracy

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Piracy on the Somali Coast GavinC Off Topic Forum 58 20-12-2010 12:27
Somali Piracy - UN Report on the Business Model David_Old_Jersey Dollars & Cents 5 05-04-2010 17:18



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:05.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.