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Old 16-10-2010, 06:09   #136
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Geesh, Another Gun Thread - instead of discussing the OP's question - "If you are going around the world, is there a way to avoid this problem? Are there flotillas like the Atlantic ARC crossing for safety, or are you on your own? I don't want to go around Cape Horn. Nasty water there."

Maybe everything needed to be said has already been said as the options for getting to the Med without going around South Africa are limited to 1. luck, sneaking through in a lull between the pirate's hunting forays. 2. Groups of boats willing to protect each other by defensive maneuvering. And 3. shipping the boat or hiring a mercenary crew to assist or take the boat through.
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Old 16-10-2010, 12:08   #137
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Bluesman... I seem to have struck a nerve. Wasn't intended. Have a beer on me.

Couple of points:

* I wasn't referring to you specifically, but more a barfly type who seldom has the experience to back the BS. I don't see you in this light because I suspect you're the real deal, but the perception is that you're putting yourself in that kind of company.

* I'm not anti gun at all. Got my first one for my 9th birthday and being ex South African, lived there at a time when most of us living in dodgy areas carried a handgun... usually shoulder holster. Done the hunting thing etc.

So I DO know that to "... get good enough with a bolt action of decent caliber that you can deply the bipod and still manage to hit from a rolling deck ( yes it can be done , and at extended yardage)..."
and "...get good enough with that sidearm to double tap and drop six falling plates in less than ten seconds WITH a magazine change...",

is a skill level that will take a novice longer to achieve than my suggested trip via the Cape.

I guess all I'm saying is, the cruising life is about making wise survival choices and having a good life.
Hell, I headed to Australia to bring my kids up in a safe environment, my cousin stayed in S.Africa. He was murdered before he was 40, for his cell phone! I've got an uncle robbed and shot... wheelchair vegetable for 18 years.

Life's a game of chance anyway, so why not stack it in your favour and use the safer routes now, and travel the high risk areas later when the trouble has moved someplace else?

My Aussie 2c worth, which is now about equal to your US 2c


Nah you didn't hit a nerve , wait until you hear *me* go on sometime about berks with firearms. And thanks for the offer of a pint , though I never touch beer , now a nice Viognier maybe , or one of those good Shiraz that you lot have been sending over here.

And me I just take the whole 'firearms political controversy' in stride , the pendulum swings back and forth , having been a competitive shooter and a handloader for most my life I remain rather nonplused by both sides or the arguement , the extremes at both ends of the arguement being rather amusing , from the NRA 'anybody should be able to own anything' stance to the antis ' oh my God it's a firearm it's going to bite me all of it's own volition.' tack , they're equally ridiculous , it's an inherently polarisng discussion and many folks lose their minds when the subject comes up.

Here's a sidenote and a factor that many folks aren't ready for , firearms in a marine environment add yet another maintenance task to your list.


And I hear you on the common sense approach , avoiding trouble completely is the wisest course , but there's also a degree of wisdom in being prepared for it too.

And while we're at this subject we should touch upon certain other psychogically connected factors , if one cannot bring oneself to pull the trigger in a life threatening confrontation then one has absolutely ZERO business in carrying a firearm of any sort for defensive purposes , This is of course NOT saying that one should be a 'cowboy' , it is however restating what *every* combat shooting course in the world military or otherwise will teach you , that being that when the time DOES come to shoot hesitation can get you killed right damn quicklike. This of course goes without regard to whether it's on the hard or a marine environment. And *never* take a firearm that you can't afford to lose and/or abuse into a marine environment.

But then I'll also freely admit that part of my opinion is skewed by coming from a commercial crabbing and fishing environment where the old forms of nautical respect are still fairly closely followed and people are a bit 'harder' ( for lack of a better term) and at times have a bit more common sense.

As for any legalities after the fact , there's an old saying " better to be alive and tried by twelve than to be dead and carried by six."

And as I stated earlier , to me it's nothing more than a *tool* , I carry 'em the way I do an extra set of boxend wrenches or a spare fuel pump.
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Old 16-10-2010, 12:13   #138
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Originally Posted by osirissail View Post
Geesh, Another Gun Thread - instead of discussing the OP's question - "If you are going around the world, is there a way to avoid this problem? Are there flotillas like the Atlantic ARC crossing for safety, or are you on your own? I don't want to go around Cape Horn. Nasty water there."

Maybe everything needed to be said has already been said as the options for getting to the Med without going around South Africa are limited to 1. luck, sneaking through in a lull between the pirate's hunting forays. 2. Groups of boats willing to protect each other by defensive maneuvering. And 3. shipping the boat or hiring a mercenary crew to assist or take the boat through.

Seems like the OPs question IS being discussed , it's just that certain folks can't stand any discussion of firearms and refuse to acknowledge that it might well be a viable solution for some folks.

And of course such folks ( like yourself) have the option of NOT reading any firearms related posts , now don't they?
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Old 16-10-2010, 14:18   #139
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I think what is being discussed is how to transit the route through the Somalia Pirate areas safely - not how to execute a small arms war while trying to navigate and helm your boat.
- - Gun threads always break into two camps, those who take the US Second Amendment as world-wide law and those who have been out there and say that the complications, hassles and consequences of having firearms onboard a private recreational vessel when transiting foreign countries that do not allow firearms is too much grief.
- - That's the real world of cruising internationally versus the fantasy world of life in the USA. Then actually using the weapon while in another country introduces another whole world of complications and difficulties which can be life threatening to you or your wallet. All of which makes the simple suggestion of just not going to/through those areas the logical choice. The OP was most probably looking for a middle ground solution.
- - As a US Marine serving during Vietnam, I have no qualms about firearms and using them for their ultimate purpose. Been there, done that, got the tee-shirt. But as a cruiser I am out here for the joy and peace of the experience and don't need the grief and hassles that having firearms on a private recreational vessel entails.
- - It is the false sense of omnipotence of people who are non-military/non-law enforcement have that the firearm is their absolute savior which is pure fantasy especially when they have never killed anybody or even been close to such a circumstance. I think it might be called the Clint Eastwood syndrome which was manufactured in Hollywood.
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Old 20-10-2010, 11:30   #140
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Tasers and paint ball guns and hand-thrown Molotov cocktails against RPGs and AK47s. This is getting a bit silly.

Judy
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Nothing silly about it, they are options to protect ones self in the event of a problem.

My sister has carried pepper spray in her belt while she jogs every day for over 10 years. But on one morning, a man decided to pull out a gun, she was able to get the pepper spray and get him in the eyes and she ran, he fired 2 shots aimlessly, not even in the direction she ran, but the shots drew the attention of a nearby police officer. The man was arrested and it was later found out he was responsible for 7 area rapes.

My sister was extremely lucky. Yes, however if she hadn't had the pepper spray it would have been a much different story.

So call her silly all you want, she carried something to make her feel safe when she jogged, it just so happened that silly thing she carried saved her.

My suggestion of the paintball pepper balls, was purely for self preservation. In the event something happens, I want something that might give me a fighting chance.

I don't think every vessel that approaches is a threat, however if one isn't aware of potential threats one can be caught off guard.

If it hits the fan, I would prefer to have options then to stand there with my hands in my pockets.

I personally think avoiding known dangerous areas is the best plan of attack, however that is not always possible, and one needs to be prepared for worse case scenario for every situation. Be it improvised ways to fend off attackers or having ways to survive if you need to abandon ship.

There are few possible ways to navigate through or around this area, each has their own set of pros and cons. Every person will have their own level of acceptable risk and that will be different from yours or mine.

If carrying a gun, or knowing how to defend ones self make it easier for a person to deal with thing and sleep at night more power to them.
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Old 20-10-2010, 14:13   #141
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... I don't think every vessel that approaches is a threat, however if one isn't aware of potential threats one can be caught off guard.

If it hits the fan, I would prefer to have options then to stand there with my hands in my pockets.

I personally think avoiding known dangerous areas is the best plan of attack ...
Indeed!
Kind of belies your screen name.
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Old 21-10-2010, 01:53   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckless View Post
Nothing silly about it, they are options to protect ones self in the event of a problem.

My sister has carried pepper spray in her belt while she jogs every day for over 10 years. But on one morning, a man decided to pull out a gun, she was able to get the pepper spray and get him in the eyes and she ran, he fired 2 shots aimlessly, not even in the direction she ran, but the shots drew the attention of a nearby police officer. The man was arrested and it was later found out he was responsible for 7 area rapes.

My sister was extremely lucky. Yes, however if she hadn't had the pepper spray it would have been a much different story.

So call her silly all you want, she carried something to make her feel safe when she jogged, it just so happened that silly thing she carried saved her.
This is an entirely different scenario than being on a sailboat and being approached by men holding AK-47s (the gun of choice in that part of the world). The sailor will not have the element of surprise, as your sister did when she pulled out her pepper spray. And there will be more of them in that skiff than there will be on our boat. I think shooting pepper spray at one of them will likely get me shot by one of his friends.

BTW, you are preaching to the choir. I have been car-jacked with a sawed-off shotgun 6-inches from my eyes. I know all too well the value of both handguns and shotguns for protection. I still think pepper spray and paint balls against several men in a skiff approaching a sailboat at fast speed and carrying AK-47s in plain view is just plain silly. You are just going to further piss them off and get yourself shot. They want to kidnap people for ransom, not kill sailors. Calm heads everyone.

Judy
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Old 21-10-2010, 06:46   #143
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The sailor will not have the element of surprise, as your sister did when she pulled out her pepper spray. And there will be more of them in that skiff than there will be on our boat. I think shooting pepper spray at one of them will likely get me shot by one of his friends.

They want to kidnap people for ransom, not kill sailors. Calm heads everyone.

Judy
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I think their are many references on this site of times when sailors have been surprised by people coming on their boats. Also from what I have heard, the AK's are sometimes hidden under fishing nets etc. They don't always ride up guns a blazing.


As far as the ransom goes, I know in my situation it will not be paid, this has been discussed with my family, I have legal documentation to that effect. So what do you think these guys do when they don't get their money?

You are kidding yourself if you think that they will just let you go if you tell them no ransom will be paid.


I personally have only fired a gun a handful of times, and know I don't possess the skills needed or the desire to carry a gun, however I have fired paintball countless times.

Every situation is different as I said in my original post, as I stated I would rather have something then nothing.

I am not saying grab the paintball gun I am taking on all the somali pirates myself, but if a situation occurred where I was bordered by a few men and I had the opportunity to gain control, again depending on the situation I would rather have something then nothing.
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Old 23-10-2010, 05:50   #144
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We have a saying in Texas: You don't bring a knife to a gunfight.

I think the sentiment applies to some of the suggestions put forth in this thread. And with that parting comment I leave this conversation as I have read more than enough about the safety issue of transiting the Gulf of Aden and possible methods of "protecting" oneself.

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Old 25-10-2010, 00:52   #145
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The second outboard is just an auxiliary from the look of it.
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Old 25-10-2010, 00:55   #146
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The second motoe looks like an auxiliary only.
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Old 24-08-2011, 06:51   #147
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Re: How to Avoid Somali Pirates ?

Piracy threat forces VOR race route change

“The escalating piracy problem in the Indian Ocean has forced organisers of the Volvo Ocean Race 2011-12 to redraw the routes for the second and third legs ...
... The boats will now race from Cape Town to an undisclosed ‘safe haven’ port, be transported closer to Abu Dhabi, and then complete the leg from there. The process will be reversed for the third leg before the race continues on to Sanya ...”

More ➥ Volvo Ocean Race 2011-2012 | Piracy threat forces race route change

And ➥ Take a Cue from the VOR when it Comes to Cruising Pirate Alley | Cruising Compass
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Old 24-08-2011, 08:18   #148
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Re: How to Avoid Somali Pirates ?

Stay away from Somali??? Duh!!
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Old 25-08-2011, 02:07   #149
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Re: How to Avoid Somali Pirates ?

Given that some of the pirates have motherships and can rove up from several hundred to perhaps a couple of thousands of miles offshore, one would have to stay further away than the immediate vicinity of Somalia to feel safe.
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Old 25-08-2011, 10:23   #150
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Re: How to Avoid Somali Pirates ?

Quote:
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... The boats will now race from Cape Town to an undisclosed ‘safe haven’ port, be transported closer to Abu Dhabi,
Well thats interesting!
Especially the leg from Abu Dhabi to China which would take boats close to India. Thatw as thought to be safe till just late last year.
We were shivering in our shoes as we were seening attacks closer and closer to India.

But it is taking a while for even thse race officials:
Quote:
“This has been an incredibly difficult decision,” said Volvo Ocean Race Chief Executive Knut Frostad.
The only reason why the decision is difficult is the knut hasn't sailed the area, nor obiously read 4 people where shot in a direct line between Capetown and Abu Dhabi 6 months ago.

Its a no brainer to me!
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