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Old 10-03-2009, 17:11   #106
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Be a bit careful when motoring up in strong winds. We were in NZ one time and a guy in a big fishing trawler kept doing that. As you stated, you really have no way of knowing where you are and often times he would blow down so hard (beam to wind) that he eventually pulled his anchor out and darn near went aground. Putting a floating marker on a small anchor or weight helps to keep your position (be careful not to run over it).

.
Great bit of advice, have had this happen before myself, (without the pulling out the anchor bit)

Dave
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Old 10-03-2009, 17:32   #107
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Old 10-03-2009, 17:59   #108
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[quote=Kanani;263099]Glad it went by Mark........

The best storm anchoring system is a "Y" made up of the best 3 anchors that you have. All 3 anchors should be attached to the bottom of a large swivel with about 50' of chain and a single chain to a nylon rode going up to the boat from the top of the swivel.

The problem with 2 anchors is that you stand the chance of one dragging and fowling the other (especially as the wind shifts). With the 3 anchor system, there is very little chance of dragging because you will almost always be on at least 2 anchors and it doesn't matter where the wind comes from. If you do happen to get on 1 anchor and drag it, it will go between the other 2 and you will end up on 3 anchors. Fluke type anchors work well in this set-up. I carried 2 Fortress anchors just for that reason. They performed perfectly.


We have been following this thread with great interest and we are so happy that no-one has been hurt or lost their boats. But Kanani we may be showing our ignorance here (not hard) but could you please explain in detail how you lay out this 'Y' system and how you set it up, how you drop the anchors and get them to bite? It sounds like a good system and we would love to know more as we are heading for NZ in 9 days and while we have all intentions of never being in this type of weather we are also realists!
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Old 10-03-2009, 19:28   #109
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Cell phone do work to. XP is better the difficulty is in the IRQ, you only pay for the time I believe it wont be long before the ISP realise is loosing money and shut it down.
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Old 10-03-2009, 19:29   #110
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There must be another thread on storm anchoring ideas.

One of my major problems was that I had 7 (seven!) lines over the bow!
2 anchors
1 bucket of concrete
1 safety line for bucket of concrete
2 bridle snubber lines
the original snubber line

My boat only has 1 bow roller and 2 bow cleats. There was bits of string hanging off everything!

Nicolle said: If we have to move in a hurry what should I take off first? Thats about when we realised it was stupid.

After the end of the whole thing the boat swung round in a lull against tide and... OK now we had 7 TWISTED lines!

So I, too, am considering what Kanani says but I am stuffed if I can see how to get 3 down in the right spot all dug in!

I am liking the 2 anchors on 1 line idea (I dont have a 3rd anchor anyway) and might give it a test.

Lots of people say to dive on the anchor... but that only works if the water is shallow and clear. Any hurrican hole would likely be muddy and dirty. And free diving below 10 feet gives me a bottom time of about 3 seconds

Its all wonderful food for thought I want to feel secure and there is no way I would have in Kanani's 100 kts....
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Old 10-03-2009, 20:03   #111
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before you dive check for crocodiles, I vould never dive in my harbour only if the ship sunk and then with a big knife, the size of "Mick Dundee". Nicolle make sens to me but only you is the master of this ship.
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Old 10-03-2009, 22:41   #112
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If you put down 2 anchors, it's best to put them down 180 degrees apart IMO. If you have a good big swivel, use it to link the 2 anchor chains.

The chains don't have to be tight, they just have to be connected, same thing for the "Y" set-up. The idea is to be able to fall back on 1 or 2 well set anchors without getting them sideways when the wind and/or tide shifts, resulting in an anchor pulling out. If you want to know where the anchors are, buoy them. In extreme conditions put a buoy next to each anchor also, in the mud. That way you can tell exactly what's going on with the anchor by comparing the 2 buoys. This is a little harder to do in a crowded anchorage but remember, you'd rather have your neighbor be secure than to give him grief about having buoys in the water.

If you put the anchors 90 degrees apart, you will turn them both over and possibly drag them in a wind shift.

For setting the 3 anchors on 50' chains, just disconnect your main anchor and attach that chain to the 50' chain & anchor. Set the anchor with 10:1 scope then motor up and disconnect and buoy the end of the 1st chain. Do the same with #2 & #3. Then connect them all to one swivel with shackle (seize all shackles of course). It's harder to do, but possible, with a breeze blowing. In a breeze, it may be necessary to lay 2 or 2 of the anchors with your dingy. You can tie a line to #1 chain and tie it amidships to control the boat from blowing down while setting #2. Then run a line form #1 & #2 to each side of the stern to allow you to back straight into the wind to set #3 while taking up on #1 & #2.

I know what you are saying about having a twisted up mess of anchor lines. I learned that lesson early on, in American Samoa. It's always blowing like a hurricane in that place. That's when I finally decided to get myself a good quality 1/2" swivel dedicated for storm and tidal anchoring so that I have only 1 line coming up to the boat.
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Old 10-03-2009, 22:46   #113
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Ooo! I actually know this one!

You can lay out the 'Y' anchors, but you need to lay out the complete rode, which is why it's usually only used when setting up a semi-permanent mooring complete with buoy. So, literally, you'd lay out the whole rode, attached to a big swivel which is, in turn, attached to the boat. Then lay out (at 120 degrees to the first anchor) the full rode of the second, and attach it to the swivel. Then the third... then attach the cement bucket to the swivel, with a spare safety line, and chuck the whole mess off your bow.

You now have two lines off the bow - one to the swivel and a safety line to the cement bucket. Plus the snubber if required (likely).
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Old 11-03-2009, 00:37   #114
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two anchors off main warp is my preferred method, our secondary anchor sits on the bow with a length of chain and shackle on it stored in a little bag ready to shackle to main anchor shackle and be chucked over first, nothing to tangle but you must have confidence in your main ground tackle. we also carry two other anchors that could be used if necessary, as we have sat out blows of 40-50kts on just our main anchor it would take a possible cyclone before we would go to two anchors
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Old 11-03-2009, 00:45   #115
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?
Its going away from me.

Thats good

Dave
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Old 11-03-2009, 13:24   #116
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Ooo! I actually know this one!

You can lay out the 'Y' anchors, but you need to lay out the complete rode, which is why it's usually only used when setting up a semi-permanent mooring complete with buoy. So, literally, you'd lay out the whole rode, attached to a big swivel which is, in turn, attached to the boat. Then lay out (at 120 degrees to the first anchor) the full rode of the second, and attach it to the swivel. Then the third... then attach the cement bucket to the swivel, with a spare safety line, and chuck the whole mess off your bow.

You now have two lines off the bow - one to the swivel and a safety line to the cement bucket. Plus the snubber if required (likely).
I would only recommend a kedge (bucket of cement) if there is a reason that you can't let out more scope. Under most conditions, It may be better to allow the chain to wander freely.

The idea of the kedge is to keep the shank of the anchor from lifting if the chain stresses to the point of lifting it all off of the bottom. It's better to accomplish this by paying out more rode. If there are room issues, the kedge may be an acceptable technique. I have never seen the value in compicating the whole system. The "Y" system does not have to be complicated and is a lot easier to deploy than one may think. The more complication that is added to the system, the less apt that someone is going to use it. JMO.
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Old 11-03-2009, 14:58   #117
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Its going away from me.

Thats good

Dave
Yep, happy to see the back of Hamish too. Cost me a week of work at least, and I also ended up with a gashed knee (6 stitches) and sprained wrist from falling through a deck hatch while boarding up the boat's windows. (The hatch cut-out was covered by masking tape and paper, making an excellent man-trap. Trouble is I knew it was there, but was still dumb enough to step on it)

Still it could have been much worse, we got off lightly considering there are two local trawler fishermen missing with hopes of finding them alive fading.

Hopefully this will be the last cyclone the boat has to sit through in the backyard...
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Old 11-03-2009, 17:53   #118
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I just heard a report of a container ship losing 30 containers (containing sodium nitrate) over the side, in this cyclone. ugh!!!
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Old 11-03-2009, 19:07   #119
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I just heard a report of a container ship losing 30 containers (containing sodium nitrate) over the side, in this cyclone. ugh!!!
Yep, Frickin outrageous, oil as well and in my backyard

Oil slicks washing up on Qld beaches - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Quote:
Oil slicks washing up on Qld beaches

Posted 2 hours 59 minutes ago
Updated 22 minutes ago


Oil is washing up on beaches just off and north of Brisbane, after 20 tonnes of fuel oil leaked from a damaged cargo ship yesterday.
Search on for 31 containers lost at sea - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

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Search on for 31 containers lost at sea

Posted Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:10pm AEDT
Updated Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:51pm AEDT


Helicopter crews are searching for 31 shipping containers full of ammonium nitrate that fell off a ship in stormy conditions off south-east Queensland this morning.
Pissed off about this, I cant have a 5hit out there, but they can lose a 5hitload of Ammonium Nitrate.
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Old 11-03-2009, 19:11   #120
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I just heard a report of a container ship losing 30 containers (containing sodium nitrate) over the side, in this cyclone. ugh!!!


Thanks for the replies on the anchoring it will give us something to practise and refine.

The containers situation is in fact worse than first thought. Approx 30 containers went overboard in the rough seas all containing Ammonium Nitrate but the Environmental Protection Authority believe they will leach most of the contents quickly so there is a "spike effect" but little long term damage. However the containers damaged the ship on their way over and the ship has now lost a large amount of fuel or oil (depending on which story you read) The slick is landing on Moreton Island and doesn't look like the oil slicks we have seen over the years like the Exxon Valdez which appeared to be very black and very thick. This looks brown and slightly frothy so it may be fuel. The radio stations in Brisbane are jokingly telling people to take buckets out there and save money by getting free fuel.

How bad it is going to be remains to be seen but this is a catastrophe on any scale as the marine life is going to be hit hard. However the MSQ (Maritime Safety Queensland) have just bought in laws that if your boat/yacht (or ship) is greater than 15 m in length you must have a seperate insurance thats specifically covers clean up in the case of a spill, or you are not allowed to enter Queensland waters at all. Obviously this ship has insurance and all the costs will be covered but it is a very sad state of affairs and the cost to our marine life is immeasurable.
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