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Old 31-01-2007, 22:26   #16
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warning coming into Australia

Come on dave, that is no solution it just costs the taxpayers more money.

No, you have to push the politicians. The Customs Service will do nothing on their own, they are a bureaucratic department, full of procedures and bullshit, and they think they are GOD.

Our political system does work and you have to use the media and whatever to embrass the politicians into doing something. The system does work, albeit slowly. No politician wants bad publicity on something so stupid.
This is not just about a few international cruisers coming into Australia and getting harrassed. This is just another case of lazy bureaucracy making stupid/arrogant decisions.
Our International standing in the world is important to us and to Australian Politicians and the media and the Australian population won't stand for it.
The reason we have this sort of system is because we are too complacent and WE have to do something about it, and we can.
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Old 31-01-2007, 23:07   #17
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Sed your Comment's to custom's here comments@customs.gov.au

You're right Beau, and idealy not the way to solve thing's , i've just never held much faith in result's from letter's and media.

After all I do see the result's of complaint's on TV at 6-30pm and it's less than inspirational.

I have emailed Custom's and specifically asked what their recomendation's are for a traveller without Fax, eMail, HF or immarsat facilities on a longer than 96 hour passage.

I also forwarded the Coastal Passage link's asking what I should do to avoid the same treatment.

It will be interesting to see if I get a reply via email or a Paddy Wagon at the door.

I will be forwarding those link's to paper and electronic media as well as to your mate that you mentioned.

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Old 31-01-2007, 23:47   #18
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From Bob Norson


in the mean time I got a message from an attorney wanting to make a submission to a senate committee that is pondering giving customs even more power.... shudder!

"I have written to the Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs – inquiring into the above Bill, and attached all the above material.
Submissions had closed – but apparently my verbal advice was sufficient for the Senators to indicate to the Secretary( to the Committee) that if the material was interesting enough they might reopen the Hearing to accept the letter as a submission(which would be nice as it would be included in the report). So Mr Ayres complaints may yet be “aired” in another forum and Customs may yet get a boot up the proverbial- which wont help Mr Manzari – might help future customers! "

The attachments are all my pages on customs from the web site.. and an article in "Go Boating" and a report from the Cairns post. so now the senate is studying TCP...

weirder and weirder...but like he said.. when the going gets weird...

Bob

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Old 01-02-2007, 00:01   #19
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I've sent them an email asking how to comply as my boat can;t cross the tasman in under 10 days and i have no means of contacting them at sea.
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Old 01-02-2007, 00:46   #20
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While the few accounts of "Customsgate" by the cruisers involved sound a bit overboard in relation to their court cases and boarding techniques,the fact is, if ya do the right thing ya wont have these problems.All ya crap about Nazis and Russian comunist era type tactics sounds nearly as bad as ya bitchin.A smart sailor WOULD find out up to date info on entering a differen't country FULL STOP.While some countries are more relax about growth on hulls and snails and things we dont want in our waters,WE arn't(Get over it!).Australia and apparently New Zealand ARE great places to visit,while ya "Dime" might get ya more in NZ it wont here.Ya can put ya dime wherever ya wish!!Terrorism started all these escalations in "Boarder control inititives" and it's happening everywhere so stay on track with ya assumptions.Maybe fineing a few people might get the rules accross considering the web carn't"DOH!!"Oh while Im there,poor old pentioners on their retirement money dont fly home every year to visit the "Family",well at least they wouldn't waste their SMALL funds on marina fees while their on the other side of the world visiting.OK,so the people conserned did get a ruff ruling granted,but it was a little bit of overkill in the way this all was depicted.And this crappy journalism really reached a lot of people on the forum,to some it might be relevent and to others it might not, and Ill wager a bet by now it's all over sailing forums worldwide!!"DON"T COME TO AUSTRALIA"And we use to think the poms winged a lot.The Neo conservative party started the same way,with a truckload of "Diss information",just to acheive a certain outcome.If ya don't like whats going on in OZ,the door is there.The smart jurno would head the story,"Australia is a great place to visit,just bewhare of the new rules pertaining to entry"and with a foot note saying the truth!!"It's not happening to everyone"Now thats something ya can do for the sailing community!Mudnut.
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Old 01-02-2007, 01:42   #21
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Mudnut, going by what you've said you are under the false impression that all yachties have HF, Imarsat, Fax and email facilities on board, therefore making it simple for all yachties to contact custom's within that 96hr timeframe.

I would be interested to hear how you propose to make communication's within this timeframe with Australian custom's if you ever get a vessel of your own to go cruising on.

You also seem to be under the impression that custom's have informed people of these rule changes.

Can you show the changes or notes in any cruising guides, can you show any notice to mariner's stating said changes.

I heard nothing about these changes until they were brought to our attention by Bob in his original artical Beware of Entering Australia

Interesting to notice the similar comment's you made there.

It seem's to me that Bob's so called "Crappy Journalism" that you talk of is backed up by letter's from affected parties, talk of current court cases and other FACTS, which is more than be said for your post.

It is obviously easy for you to make comment's from the safety of your lounge room that don't and maybe won't have any affect on you.

For the rest of the Australian's, New Zealander's and yachties of other nationalities that are actually out there doing it, or well on their way toward's going, that have posted here, it is an issue of major concern, as well it should be.

Dave
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Old 01-02-2007, 03:19   #22
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RTBATES...The law is the same in New Zealand. You must fill out an Advance Arrival Notice and fax it to New Zealand customs service. It's not a big deal. You must also call on ssb 24 hours prior to arrival.

Customs in OZ sounds out of control. I just scratched them from my list for next year.
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Old 01-02-2007, 04:46   #23
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Yep,fair enough what ya say,I agree on it all at base point.Enough is enough when it comes to basicly railroading cruisers,Yep,fair enough go and press the pollies concerned to show them how silly their idears are,I agree with all that.But the way it was portrayed at a jurnalistic level was crap.I don't care wether Bob said it or Bill or Peter,the fact that a few people posted saying that OZ is off their list over such minute reporting really makes me think that it wasn't WARNING anything but persudeing people from comming here in the first place.Are you gonna take off somewhere and NOT look up the relevent info or plead that as an excuse in court at your foreign port of call.There is a backdoor also,maybe it was designed to get people in OZ to get up off their sweet bit and complain to the govt people concerned.Ok,I don't know how to put quotes in this reply(PC challenged)so I'll reply as per your paragraphs.#1I never said anything of the sort,or,imlied it.#2I plan to get a boat and cruise a bit within OZ waters,but if I did leave territorial waters,I would research a bit more than a cruising guide(considering the security problems the terrorists have created for more boarder protection in a lot of countries).#3It's on the web!If ya not sure ring your apropriate embassy(Their everywhere)And do ya think for one moment customs are gonna contact every boat in mariners or on their way to a different country of the changes to custom laws when in the first place it is the captain's due dilligence to know before hand.#4Cruising guides are responsable for what they print/know about the places they write their storys on,anyway,they are only a guide.I read it in a magazine dosn't cut it in the wide world of international travel,especially if there is money to be made by government departments.#5Yep aint that true!!.#6 I probably said the same sort of things alongside of what I've said in this post.#6 I recall most of those people pleaded guilty,a few had the same excuse,even though I don't agree with the penalties dished out they wern't prosecuted to the max.Call it revenue raising if you will or Naziism,but hey it hasn't happened to every cruiser comming to OZ.I bet when you take off youll know what ya have ta do to get into any other country,and not from some cruising guide neither.And just for interest sake most of those people wern't calling us Russian commo's or nazis.I think it was jurnalistic intent.#7There are a few people on this forum that don't own a boat who wish to and there are people that have not yet sailed but will do.I am one off them and to say this probably don't and maybe won't affect me is a bit presumtious of you.And at last #8And Dave Please don't think I'm attacking anyone on this issue,it's for the fact that a lot of people allover the world are gonna read this that I AM worried.Mainly because OZ is our country and we are overall not how we are being portrayed.Terrorism has started some big changes,we might not get it right at the start and all the time,but ya can walk down most any street in OZ and not get blown up by a bomb made by someone we let slip in under the radar so to speak.Dave's last paragraph is also mine!But on the end of it I want to add"So make sure ya know the rules before you go ANYWHERE,not just OZ,Mudnut.
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Old 01-02-2007, 05:08   #24
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Notice of enty to Aust

I would like some qualified legal expert to answer a simple question.My understanding of a vessel "under quarantine" ie not cleared is not in Australian waters & is still under international regulations until it is cleared to continue.If this vessel was at the quarantine area & not released then this period should count as part of the valid time for the notification. This is not "Australian" On behalf of all the rest of the ordinary people of Australia I do apologize. I will also forward a copy to my local Federal Member for a reply.

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Old 01-02-2007, 05:55   #25
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Quarantine has no validity in this topic...it's the entering of Australian waters. Quarantine is until you clear customs...totally different. You are under Autralian jurisdiction when you enter their waters, can be boarded, searched, etc.

Mud...It's not the rules that concern me but how they are enforced. I don't want to be paying thousands of dollars in fines over a simple violation. A simple scolding is standard practice in most countries. If a fine of $50 dollars was levied that would also be okay. A fine of thousands of dollars is too much risk for me as a cruiser...for most cruisers. The rules for checking in at each country is widely different and it's easy, and common, to get things wrong. Too much risk for me, money wise.
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Old 01-02-2007, 06:25   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kapena
Quarantine has no validity in this topic...it's the entering of Australian waters. Quarantine is until you clear customs...totally different. You are under Autralian jurisdiction when you enter their waters, can be boarded, searched, etc.

Mud...It's not the rules that concern me but how they are enforced. I don't want to be paying thousands of dollars in fines over a simple violation. A simple scolding is standard practice in most countries. If a fine of $50 dollars was levied that would also be okay. A fine of thousands of dollars is too much risk for me as a cruiser...for most cruisers. The rules for checking in at each country is widely different and it's easy, and common, to get things wrong. Too much risk for me, money wise.
Totally agree.Next ya know they'll be wanting gifts and bribes like other countries officialdoms.Although dramatic,these case's don't seem to be the norm as yet(No up to date/out of date refference to verifi that statement)but who knows.I hate what governments impose on all people,not just sailors,but sorting out exactly what is the norm is the hard bit.Unless you have a wooden boat or dirty hull and or contraband,getting in should not be a problem if ya get the latest info on wherever you wish to visit.Mudnut.
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Old 01-02-2007, 11:47   #27
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Mudnut,

I have to agree with Kapena. I don't have a problem with requiring prior notification of arrival, but the current rules appear impossible to follow for some. dana-tenacity wrote that he couldn't cross the tasman in under 10 days and once under way had no way to contact them. Is it reasonable that every cruiser wishing to visit Australia be equipped with sat phone, sail or equivalent? As more cruiser are impacted by this, people will stop coming and perhaps the economic impact will be enough to force a change.

Chuck
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Old 01-02-2007, 12:07   #28
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When NZ imposed section 21 requiring foreign vessels to get full cat 1 before they could leave again (and imposed it on vessels already here), the cruisers stopped coming. It had a distinct economic impact on the service industry that had built up around visiting cruisers.
I can see a similar thing happening in Aus (maybe all the Kiwi tradesmen running that industry will have to come back).
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Old 01-02-2007, 12:08   #29
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There is something 3rd worldish (is that a word?) about making up a rule that can't be followed, not telling anyone about it, then collecting the fines.
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Old 01-02-2007, 12:59   #30
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Originally Posted by dana-tenacity
There is something 3rd worldish (is that a word?) about making up a rule that can't be followed, not telling anyone about it, then collecting the fines.
You have put into words exactly what I was thinking, but could not quite put my finger on.

I would merely add, "with the threat of even more dire consquences".

And I have been to 3rd worldish places and experianced first hand "law" enforcement.
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