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Old 20-05-2012, 07:32   #31
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All I have been able to find out is that everything needed is available on Guam. The supplier there is probably willing to do the work to get the materials shipped. Chris Young 671-727-8326. So the distressed yachtie might just sit tight and wait for it all to come together. All fiberglass damage is readily repaired. Just takes materials and time.
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Old 20-05-2012, 09:07   #32
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Re: Need Help: Cracked hull at Faraulep in the Carolinas

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
My eyesight not quite up to spotting the actual crack! - but from his website:-



I am guessing that is a puddle of water at the bottom.

My first thought was (in the absence of Epoxy etc) was to drop some concrete in - if the locals have any, might not seal the seepage entirely but should slow it down a tad / stabilise that part of the hull.

My second thought was to box in the cracked area usuing wood and screws so that if (when?) things get worse as the hull flexes under way then all you will get into the boat is some seepage around the joints rather than a flood! - if the boxed in area is tall enough (and doesn't have to be a small box either....3' x 3' of water (in a box) inside a boat ain't gonna sink her...got more than that in the water tanks!).

My main concern would howver be the skeg falling off, partly because of the hole that would leave - but also because would mean losing rudder, if not entirely at least enough so it no longer worked (and in many respects that worse than having none - hole in boat bottom aside!).

Obviously am not familiar with the area - but anything closer than Guam?, not for a proper fix - but for stuff that might make a better temporary fix that what is presently available locally?

Anyway, hope it all goes well - even if all I can provide is a thread bump .

The dam technique is an ancient method of damage control-it is called a cofferdam. The sides of the dam need to be built up higher than the waterline to provide the necessary protection. Unfortunately, if you intend to sail the boat you need to take into account heel angles, and then your cofferdam becomes a pair of bulkheads instead. Fine if you are only motoring in relatively calm water though, or if the leak is very slow and gauranteed to stay that way.
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Old 20-05-2012, 09:15   #33
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Re: Need Help: Cracked hull at Faraulep in the Carolinas

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Just to be clear (for the sake of casual readers), the liquid of gasoline is indeed inflammable, it's the fumes that are explosive.

Anyway, this repair does make sense. Break down the Polystyrene into it's basic form. The gasoline will eventually evaporate off and leave behind a hard plastic.

The purpose of the gelatin-like state (in napalm) is so it sticks to anything it touches, as it burns... this also makes sense for the repair process. It'll stick to, and probably bond with, other plastics. I'd just be sure to use as much ventilation as possible to speed up the evaporation process, make sure you don't get any on your skin, and NO SMOKING!

I once worked on a production floor wherein the boss had us building our plugs out of polystyrene instead of urethane foam, then glassing with epoxy instead of poly, as epoxy wont melt polysterene. This was a money saving measure as polystyrene is essentially free compared to urethane which is expensive, even though it sucks to shape. Then we would melt out the foam with gasoline. This left an incredibly nasty slurry of toxic flammable goo in the mold. One night the owner was working on a mold which had just been melted, and decided it would be smart to tape a heat gun to a shape change made and then go make a phone call. Gasoline, polystyrene, and fiberglass together burn real good, I can assure you! It was one hell of a fire, but we dragged it outside before it hit our acetone still. The fire department was not happy, they couldn't put it out for awhile....
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Old 21-05-2012, 06:51   #34
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Re: Need Help: Cracked hull at Faraulep in the Carolinas

Many of your suggestions have been passed on to David and he has related his thanks to everyone for their suggestions. I see many of you are staying up to date via his blog, and know his approach to a solution is now moving toward waiting for the next supply ship to come in with a repair kit next month.

It's great to know that so many people with so much experience and knowledge are willing to contribute their ideas on helping out distressed cruisers. When I let go the lines in a few years, I'll be hanging out here.

On behalf of David, his friends and supporters, thanks!

Warren Fraser
Commander,
Tokyo Sail & Power Squadron
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Old 21-05-2012, 07:03   #35
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Re: Need Help: Cracked hull at Faraulep in the Carolinas

feel free to pm me if you need any more advice.

all things being equal if they can use the workshop on the ship a shoe,pre drilled out of 5 mm steel plate would be the way to go.

a welder,grinder , big vice,lump hammer and drill is probably all you need.
that and the plate,some long bolts to go through the skeg and some shorter ones for the hull,and some big washers inside.

also it could be fitted whilst at anchor if a couple of lugs were welded to it,and the inside coated with tar or underwater epoxy to creat an exteriour seal
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Old 21-05-2012, 10:36   #36
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Re: Need Help: Cracked hull at Faraulep in the Carolinas

I think he should bring someone to the boat and fix it on island rather than sail all the way to Guam!The Phillipians are good at fixing things like this and a hell of a lot cheaper than anyone on Guam...I sent a 65 fastback mustang to PI from Guam and they totally rebuilt it, even making some parts from scratch and you couldnt even tell the diffirence from factory made stuff.I was quoted a price of 12000.00 on Guam and had everything done in PI for 6500.00 that was for shipping and labor...that is ugly stuff to risk going across the ocean and fighting the winds. Typhoon season is just a time when you can expect more storms,they will happen anytime of the year,during the "season" they will sometime come as many as 4 in as many weeks ...DVC PS. When i was a kid we made napalm with gas and vasoline,nasty stuff, but it would take care of a boat load of pirates!The more you rub the more it spreads...DVC
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Old 23-05-2012, 10:00   #37
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Re: Need Help: Cracked hull at Faraulep in the Carolinas

Hows it going?what did you guys decide on doing? hope all is well...DVC
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Old 23-05-2012, 12:31   #38
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Re: Need Help: Cracked hull at Faraulep in the Carolinas

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feel free to pm me if you need any more advice.

all things being equal if they can use the workshop on the ship a shoe,pre drilled out of 5 mm steel plate would be the way to go.

a welder,grinder , big vice,lump hammer and drill is probably all you need.
that and the plate,some long bolts to go through the skeg and some shorter ones for the hull,and some big washers inside.

also it could be fitted whilst at anchor if a couple of lugs were welded to it,and the inside coated with tar or underwater epoxy to creat an exteriour seal
But the shoe may not be large enough, vertically, to give the skeg the necessary strength to take the stress on the rudder at sea. I think what has happened with the accident is that the fiberglass structure has been basically severed at the crack, or at least damaged severely.. If that is the case, the skeg has really no ability to withstand horizontal forces on the rudder at sea.

I would like to suggest that if the shoe method is employed, that shoe structure must be long enough vertically to give the skeg the reinforced strength it will need.

However, an alternative solution might be simpler and better. And that is to build a secondary rudder to be hung on the transom.. What would be needed: material to build the rudder (steel plates, perhaps?), two or three sets of stout gudgeons and pintles, and a tiller to be attached to the top of the rudder.. It's your basic outboard rudder, a tried and true concept.

If that could be built and used, the boat's permanent rudder could be simply retired by allowing it to swing free and not have any horizontal force from the sea, which would mean little if any force on the skeg.

I just discovered this thread, and have not yet read every post, so I apologize if any of the above has already been discussed.
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Old 23-05-2012, 12:59   #39
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Re: Need Help: Cracked hull at Faraulep in the Carolinas

@speedoo good point ,they probably want to also use some flat bar to creat a a vee section to the lower rudder pintle.

im not sure what type of transom the boat has to hang a second rudder on,but what i do know is on the atoll they have very few resources,they basically live on fish and rice that is resupplied by the ship that anchors off the atoll every 6-8 weeks for a few hours.
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Old 23-05-2012, 13:09   #40
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Re: Need Help: Cracked hull at Faraulep in the Carolinas

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But the shoe may not be large enough, vertically, to give the skeg the necessary strength to take the stress on the rudder at sea. I think what has happened with the accident is that the fiberglass structure has been basically severed at the crack, or at least damaged severely.. If that is the case, the skeg has really no ability to withstand horizontal forces on the rudder at sea.

I would like to suggest that if the shoe method is employed, that shoe structure must be long enough vertically to give the skeg the reinforced strength it will need.

However, an alternative solution might be simpler and better. And that is to build a secondary rudder to be hung on the transom.. What would be needed: material to build the rudder (steel plates, perhaps?), two or three sets of stout gudgeons and pintles, and a tiller to be attached to the top of the rudder.. It's your basic outboard rudder, a tried and true concept.

If that could be built and used, the boat's permanent rudder could be simply retired by allowing it to swing free and not have any horizontal force from the sea, which would mean little if any force on the skeg.

I just discovered this thread, and have not yet read every post, so I apologize if any of the above has already been discussed.
This too sounds doable ,but with the distance and the part of the ocean hes in I would do all the repairs on island.When your in Typhoon Alley this time in the year the stuff will hit you with little notice (sailboat speeds)..you dont want to be in a super typhoon,no sir,I was in Omar and it was so big that the eye sat over the whole of Guam for 2 hrs.the palm trees were layed flat then the 190 mph winds slammed the palm trees to the ground 180 degrees in the other direction.I saw a whole house get picked up and spun around a few times then it ripped it into hundreds of small pieces..We would open our windows on the back side of the house and when the tyhpoon eye went over we would open the front windows and close the back,my friend next door didnt like that advise so he spent the last few hours of the storm praying because all his window were sucked and blown out...I would personally not take any undue chances in that part of the world with the damage i saw in those photos...the US Coast Guard is great but they will be grounded when those fellows will need her most...DVC
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Old 23-05-2012, 13:17   #41
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Re: Need Help: Cracked hull at Faraulep in the Carolinas

latest info here

Island hangover and dry dock design version 2 finalized | Towards Sydney
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Old 23-05-2012, 13:47   #42
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Re: Need Help: Cracked hull at Faraulep in the Carolinas

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@speedoo good point ,they probably want to also use some flat bar to creat a a vee section to the lower rudder pintle.

im not sure what type of transom the boat has to hang a second rudder on,but what i do know is on the atoll they have very few resources,they basically live on fish and rice that is resupplied by the ship that anchors off the atoll every 6-8 weeks for a few hours.
Boat is a Jeanneau 34, and unfortunately it appears to have a sugar scoop transom, which probably means an outboard rudder would be difficult at best to do under these conditions. The rudder would have to be atttached at the deck level and at the outer edge of the scoop, near the waterline, with probably not enough room to make a strong attachment, even if the gudgeon/pintle hardware were available and properly angled.

I think the only way to do it would be to attach a strong steel plate over the sugar scoop and attach the gudgeon/pintle to it, and then attach the secondary rudder.

If it were my boat in that situation, I would want an additional rudder so I would give it a try.
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Old 23-05-2012, 14:19   #43
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Re: Need Help: Cracked hull at Faraulep in the Carolinas

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i had a cracked skeg,400 miles from antigua on an atlantic crossing once,fortunately my boat has 3 watertight bulkheads so the leak was contained in the aft cabin.

the crack was letting in water every time a wave passed,but once on anchor only seeped slightly.

a passage from faraulap to guam would be hard in 4-6 ft seas at this time of year,puttin alot of strain on the rudder and skeg and almost a beat to wind ward with to current.
yap or palau would be a better bet downwind to lift out properly.

since the tide is so small there( 50cm) it might be an idea to use some heavy flat bar to"V" brace the skeg,thru bolted then to the hull.
then do a heavy epoxy repair on the crack inside.
and as much as can be got at outside at low water.
+1. on this repair. I also have friends on Guam. If you can find out whether or not you see purse seiners pass by, flag does not matter, I can also ask one of them to bring it with them and handoff when they are close by. Just a thought...
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Old 23-05-2012, 14:27   #44
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Re: Need Help: Cracked hull at Faraulep in the Carolinas

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Boat is a Jeanneau 34, and unfortunately it appears to have a sugar scoop transom, which probably means an outboard rudder would be difficult at best to do under these conditions. The rudder would have to be atttached at the deck level and at the outer edge of the scoop, near the waterline, with probably not enough room to make a strong attachment, even if the gudgeon/pintle hardware were available and properly angled.

I think the only way to do it would be to attach a strong steel plate over the sugar scoop and attach the gudgeon/pintle to it, and then attach the secondary rudder.

If it were my boat in that situation, I would want an additional rudder so I would give it a try.
Sure you can. Think steering OAR NOT rudder..
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Old 23-05-2012, 14:29   #45
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Re: Need Help: Cracked hull at Faraulep in the Carolinas

He is going to have fun now...and " buy" the time he does get to Guam he will have learned to navigate a log raft by looking at the stars alone,building out rigger canoes with fiber sails, and will claim the micronesions as his own...DVC
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