ITALIAN TOURISTS VISITING ON A YACHT, ABUSED IN FIJI.

[Claude_Marie]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

I think I see the crux of the problem here. Some people refuse to realize that exporting our own values and morals, as much as we believe they're of the highest and most just order, is just another form of exporting colonialism upon native populations. Just as most of us in the West would not agree to say wealthy compared to us Taliban yachties coming over and demanding that we behave cosistent with their morals and customs we should not demand from the locals to comply with ours. If they wish to stand around the docks and flash their wee-wees it is their right if that's their cultural thing. We can only avert our eyes or move on to the next island.

I understood that a number of values by United Nations standards were universal, Human Rights (which inclose Women and Children rights).
Nations having a problem with said rights are welcome to withdraw from the U.N, anytime.

As for bigotry, it leads to fundamentalism which leads itself to extremism...you know what is the next step.

Else, should bigots get on very well with other bigots, that is nothing new.

[NoTies]

Originally Posted by exMaggieDrum

In any case, please forgive my "hogwash" - in your opinion. Here is something I just copied from Wikipedia (not a first source of course)

Ahh, Wikipedia, the source of all truth and light. You stated as FACT "Second, the Indian sub-culture has been a huge issue and was a major reason why the military coup came about. The indigenous people greatly resented the Indians whose culture is radically different. One aspect of that was that they were more commercial-minded and were coming to dominate the economy. One of the stated reasons for the coup was to push back on the Indians and their "rights".
Bainimarama was concerned that indigenous Fijians were vested with too much power so it was THEIR culture that was a "major reason" for the coup. The Indo Fijians, apart from the ones involved in the corruption, were more than happy with the coup as they had never felt safer. But feel free to use google to form your opinions rather than someone who lived in Fiji during the coup. Don't make the mistake of putting your opinion forward as fact.

[NoTies]

Originally Posted by Claude_Marie

Sorry Ann, I failed to answer your previous answer, my mistake.

As a matter of fact, I am checking this topic created by Dutch people (there is another one about their experience of the Fidji life style and also because it involves an Italian lady or a group of ladies.

Should you like to know, I am getting slighty irritated at reading a number of comments.

I shall start with Polynesia.
Been there, done that....
BY L.A.W, I am entitle to the same rights (and duties) that any other citizens includes locals !
Therefore, I shall not care less about cultural or "so called" cultural issues.
As a law abiding citizen, either an attitude, a dress code or any other behaviour IN THE PUBLIC SPACE (within private properties, like a church for instance or a public building there are dress codes which apply) is LEGAL or is NOT LEGAL, and of course I shall not infringe the law.
For instance, in a Post office should you collect a registred mail and have to show proof of identity, one can be required to take off base ball cap or scarf for identification purpose.
Such is the law...some are not happy about it....deal with it.

When abroad, as I do not know what legally applies, I shall observe the local code of practice and behave accordingly.
I have no problem, unless language issues get in the way to ask politely LEO about the do and dont, if something is not illegal, therefore it is permitted.
Period.
Culture just does not get into the equation.
Should I suffer from some kind of discrimination : I move (and my $ or € with me) elsewhere !
As simple as that, at the end of the day, I am not the one who suffers from tourists going to some other place.
The locals do, not me !

Getting back, to the original post, in my humble opinion, that is a lot of comments about a bunch of Chavs.
I fail to see any cultural issue ( perhaps, my simple logic and myself are too stupid).
The situation described could just have happened anywhere, that includes "civilized Europe", these chavs, taking advantage of women on their own, displaying a herd behaviour and looking down at women as if they were a prey are far too common.
Definetely a NOT a cultureal issue.
They are all the same worldwide : early school leavers, un-educated, bored and making a nuisance of themselves.

Back in days when REAL men still existed, any of them who would have witnessed these " Untermensch" behaviour would have talked some sense to this bunch of morrons in the form a of nice black eye, a couple of broken teeth and/or a number of broken bones should they insist.
Sadly, there are not many gentlemen to be found, these days.

Last, but not least, "We civilized Europeans" are raising our children in a way that they should not display the slightest form of prejudice regarding race, religion, colour, origin, social back ground AND gender or sexual orientation.
We welcome the whole world from Syrian refugees to economic migrants from Africa.
Italian coasties spend their time rescuing skiffs adrift, the Italian Red Cross feeds them, supply them with warm clothes.
"French Doctors" take care of the ills and wounded for free.
Should a hurricane, a typhoon, a cyclone or an earth quake strike we come (with other G20 countries of course) for help.
School destroyed, we rebuild, no food, we give.
It is HIGH time, the rest of the world reciprocate !!!!

This post perfectly illustrates the difference between a cruiser and a tourist. Go to www.touristsforum

[Claude_Marie]

Originally Posted by NoTies

This post perfectly illustrates the difference between a cruiser and a tourist. Go to www.touristsforum

Such a Gentleman...
End of conversation !

[Sun and Moon]

Originally Posted by Claude_Marie

Last, but not least, "We civilized Europeans" are raising our children in a way that they should not display the slightest form of prejudice regarding race, religion, colour, origin, social back ground AND gender or sexual orientation.

Yes, this is why France makes Muslims feel so welcome, why Muslims are encouraged to wear traditional dress and to worship according to their own faith, and why they feel so safe and accepted in their communities and when visiting mosques.

Originally Posted by Claude_Marie

Back in days when REAL men still existed, any of them who would have witnessed these " Untermensch" behaviour would have talked some sense to this bunch of morrons in the form a of nice black eye, a couple of broken teeth and/or a number of broken bones should they insist.
Sadly, there are not many gentlemen to be found, these days.

How very civilized!

Originally Posted by Claude_Marie

So, in a few words, many members of my familly lost their life during WWI and WWII some killed by Germans others due to US and British massive bombings (most of them civilians).

I'm sure it was those low-down dirty fijian kids who did this, probably by wiggling their wee-wees. Couldn't have been civilized Europeans killing each other over intolerant beliefs.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Claude_Marie

I understood that a number of values by United Nations standards were universal, Human Rights (which inclose Women and Children rights).
Nations having a problem with said rights are welcome to withdraw from the U.N, anytime.

As for bigotry, it leads to fundamentalism which leads itself to extremism...you know what is the next step

Else, should bigots get on very well with other bigots, that is nothing new.

If by Bigots you mean the United Nations... I could not agree more..

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Claude_Marie

Such a Gentleman...
End of conversation !

Damn.. and there was me thinking it was an arrogant opinionated Rant..
Goes to show huh..!!

[hellosailor]

The OP certainly ain't my lady, I was taught ladies don't speak that way in public. We get your beef, Savusavu ain't Buckingham Palace.


But as a young LADY named Dorothy once remarked, "Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore."


That's right, and after five months at a marina that is so offensive....Remind us all why none of you has LEFT?

[Claude_Marie]

Originally Posted by boatman61

If by Bigots you mean the United Nations... I could not agree more..

Hi Boatie !

Agreed !
Bigotry and Political correctness.

(it seems you are not allowed to call a chav a chav these days).

[Claude_Marie]

Originally Posted by Sun and Moon

I'm sure it was those low-down dirty fijian kids who did this, probably by wiggling their wee-wees. Couldn't have been civilized Europeans killing each other over intolerant beliefs.

You are welcome (choosing carefully my words here) to spare me the old trick of the truncated quote.
Exact quote read as follows :



"Well, this is getting off topic.
So, in a few words, many members of my familly lost their life during WWI and WWII some killed by Germans others due to US and British massive bombings (most of them civilians).
Nobody is to blame, so goes war.
I am not prejudiced against Germans, got a few germans friends as a matter of fact, a large number of British friends and I am definetly NOT an anti american (even if I love to disagree sometimes).
;-)
Therefore, I am NOT prepared to deal with the burden of colonialism or of "war for freedom" ad vitam eternam and refuse to pass it to my children and grand children.
Freedom comes at a price, should civilians pay, sadly, a high price".

Off topic was clearly stated.

[Claude_Marie]

Originally Posted by Sun and Moon

How very civilized!


.

Enjoy !!!

An under-reported French Muslim riot: French Polynesian soldiers exact payback | Blazing Cat Fur

In some ways French Polynesian soldiers compare to British Gurkas.

It reminds me a story, takes place in the UK, local chavs went into an argument with a Gurka.
There was several chavs and one Gurka....
How can someone be so stupid to get into an argument with a Gurka ?
Well, the next day, there was more than one Gurka to "help" settling the argument.

Exact, same outcome.
Claude (openly sarcastic).

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by Claude_Marie

I understood that a number of values by United Nations standards were universal, Human Rights (which inclose Women and Children rights).
Nations having a problem with said rights are welcome to withdraw from the U.N, anytime.

As for bigotry, it leads to fundamentalism which leads itself to extremism...you know what is the next step.

Else, should bigots get on very well with other bigots, that is nothing new.

Oh yeah, "will kill for peace" attitude. Got your drift.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Claude_Marie

Enjoy !!!

An under-reported French Muslim riot: French Polynesian soldiers exact payback | Blazing Cat Fur

In some ways French Polynesian soldiers compare to British Gurkas.

It reminds me a story, takes place in the UK, local chavs went into an argument with a Gurka.
There was several chavs and one Gurka....
How can someone be so stupid to get into an argument with a Gurka ?
Well, the next day, there was more than one Gurka to "help" settling the argument.

Exact, same outcome.
Claude (openly sarcastic).

Several Chav's and one Gurkha... no contest.. the others probably came to clean up the mess..
Especially if they were from the 9th of the 4th Brigade..
Ayo Gurkhali...
As for the Italian Ladies... Italian men behave as badly or worse.. so quit bitchin or get outa the kitchen...

[David_Old_Jersey]

After 5 months I think it fair to say they are no longer visitors or cruisers.

Comes a time when you get told to fook orf, in words or deeds.

[Claude_Marie]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Several Chav's and one Gurkha... no contest.. the others probably came to clean up the mess..
Especially if they were from the 9th of the 4th Brigade..
Ayo Gurkhali...
As for the Italian Ladies... Italian men behave as badly or worse.. so quit bitchin or get outa the kitchen...

I was living in Kent in those days.
So which Brigade ?
You know better.

You are right but compare pears and apples, away from home, no male friends arround, with no decent (if I got it right) police force to turn to, a different ball of wax.