COOK STRAIT Weather

[GordMay]

The Sulpicio Lines “Princesses of Stars” passenger ferry, with over seven hundred people (626 passengers and 121 crew members) on board, capsized on Saturday when it’s engines failed, and it ran aground, during Typhoon “Fengshen” (Frank), in the Philippines.
Princesses of Stars capsize - Google News

The Sulpicio Lines Ferry “Dona Paz” collided with an oil tanker (MT “Vector”, a tramping motor tanker owned and operated by Vector Shipping Corporation) off the island of Mindoro, Phillipines, in 1987 . More than 4,000 may have died, in what is often described as the world's worst peacetime maritime tragedy.

The worst sea disaster of all time would likely be the sinking of a minor German liner, the “Wilhem Gustloff”, during WWII. Something like 7000 people, mostly refugees, were crammed on to the ship when it went down.

[exfishnz]

Originally Posted by GordMay

The worst sea disaster of all time would likely be the sinking of a minor German liner, the “Wilhem Gustav”, during WWII. Something like 7000 people, mostly refugees, were crammed on to the ship when it went down.

I think from memory of reading an article about this, it was either this ship (or another similar incident) that British air force pilots were shooting* the passengers tying to swim to shore (under orders to kill any German soldiers trying to get to shore). I think the refugee trip was actually funded by a rich woman from Switzerland.

* Like they say, "in war, stuff just happens"

[GordMay]

I’m not aware of any stories or even rumors of “strafing” of survivors of the “Gustloff”.

The “Wilhelm Gustloff” was sunk by the Soviet sub S-13, and disappeared under the sea in less than 50 minutes, taking with it 9,343 refugees, soldiers, sailors, and crew.

The Gustloff, designed to carry a maximum of 1,865 people total, was transporting an estimated 10,582, including scores of sick and injured, as well as women, children and the elderly. All were fleeing the Soviet advance on the Baltic port of Gotenhafen.

On January 30, 1945, the Soviet sub S-13, commanded by Alexander Marinesko, hit the Gustloff with a spread of three torpedoes. The Gustloff immediately leaned to starboard, righted itself, and then leaned to again. She then launched rescue flares and broadcast an SOS. According to an eye-witness account of Oberbootsmannsmatt Karl Hoffman, the first torpedo struck the Gustloff at the bow, directly below the helm deep below the waterline. The second torpedo exploded under the area of the ship that was the swimming pool, and the third torpedo hit amidship in the forward part of the engine room, ripping the ship hull and shattering the machinery. Soon, the forecastle was nearly underwater, with the stern beginning to rise above the waterline. In under 50 minutes time, the Gustloff was gone, taken beneath the icy black waters of the Baltic, and with her, 9,343 men, women and children. Amazingly, 1,239 people were saved by the heroic and selfless work of a number of German ships in the area. Torpedoboot T-36 rescued 564 people, Torpedoboot Löwe 472 people, Minensuchboot M387 98 people, Minensuchboot M375 43 people, Minensuchboot M341 37 people, steamer Gottingen saved 28 people, Torpedofangboot TF19 saved 7, freighter Gotland 2 people, and Vorpostenboot 1703 saved one person, a 1 year-old child.

The Gustloff rests about 30 km offshore of Leba, at 55.07̊ N x 17.41̊ E. It has been designated as a war memorial site (off-limits to salvage crews). On Polish navigation charts it is noted as "Obstacle No. 73".

[exfishnz]

Originally Posted by cooper

roughness of bass straight

I went across there once (on the mono's), all the local whinging Aussie's on the ferry were telling me that it was really rough, but compared to the Cook Strait, I was a bit disappointed - because it felt more like a Sydney harbour dinner cruise to me

If it was the same size as the large mono roro ferries

Mate, those things are huge (636' & 30,000 tons). A cat that size would be called a floating oil/gas platform

On the subject of floating platforms. They got them deep off NZ, designed & built by North Sea company's for their ocean conditions. Well, the thing got damaged by big sea's (must be more rougher down here than in the North Sea ). I remember reading an article about it, the owners had commented to the North Sea boys that their ocean is like a little pond compared to the Southern Ocean.

http://www.spiritoftasmania.com.au

[exfishnz]

Originally Posted by GordMay

I’m not aware of any stories or even rumors of “strafing” of survivors of the “Gustloff”.

G'day Gord, you're right mate.

The vessel I was confusing it with - was the “Cap Arcona”, a German liner chartered to take prisoners of war to Sweden. She was attacked by the RAF, also the SS shot any survivors that reached the shore. Its mentioned (but not yet referenced) that the Sweede's had told the Brit's that the ship was carrying prisoners of war.

(RAF pilot) Allan Wyse, formerly of 193 Fighter Squadron, said "We used our cannon fire at the chaps in the water … we shot them up with 20 mm cannons in the water. Horrible thing, but we were told to do it and we did it. That's war".

I appear to be wrong about the original charterer (that must be another ship), this voyage was organised by a Swedish diplomat as part of a Red Cross mission.

Cap Arcona - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There's a large amount of vessels & innocent people that got killed on the ocean during that period, its indeed very chilling stuff to read.

[Alan Wheeler]

. Well, the thing got damaged by big sea's (must be more rougher down here than in the North Sea )

They had to extend the rig platform another 10M higher above the sea than they normally sat in the Northsea.

[MidLandOne]

I've been backwards and forwards across Bass Strait dozens of times and never had a rough ride yet, in fact always been very smooth and comfy. Uh oh, getting confused here , that was in jet aircraft - the best way to travel .

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by exfishnz

Are you 100% sure? If you look closely, I think there's a couple of monohull sail boats across the other side of sand bank

Absolutely sure. I did say deep keelers. There are a couple of trailer sailors anchored there, but deep keeled boats can't get in. I've tried it myself.

[Alan Wheeler]

So why can't shallow draft, swing keel and lifting keel mono boats get there??? There are different boats for different folks for different places to see. Hmmm, that's catchy.

[exfishnz]

Originally Posted by MidLandOne

I've been backwards and forwards across Bass Strait dozens of times and never had a rough ride yet, in fact always been very smooth and comfy. Uh oh, getting confused here , that was in jet aircraft - the best way to travel .

When you take the plane from West Island back to WGTN, you certainly know who the Aussie passengers are - as the plane is lining up for a very bumpy landing approach during a blow

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Absolutely sure. I did say deep keelers. There are a couple of trailer sailors anchored there, but deep keeled boats can't get in. I've tried it myself.

OK. In the ANZAC spirit, I will take your word for it... this time

hmmm... maybe we could get in there, with a dredger

Queen of the Netherlands (569' & 32,000 tons)
(click pic to enlarge)

[exfishnz]

Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler

So why can't shallow draft, swing keel and lifting keel mono boats get there??? There are different boats for different folks for different places to see. Hmmm, that's catchy.

That's exactly true, also a multi with fixed bulb keels or fixed dagger/fin boards is going to have similar probs.

I'm quite happy to concede the point of full keel & fixed fin mono's not being able to go into close waters that have a shallow draft (like our multi friend states). I can still visit these places but have to anchor much further out (in deeper water) & run along in the inflatable for a distance. But in a multi, I can't visit these places if on route to there I went turtle on a wave (i.e. caught out in a storm somewhere).

[MidLandOne]

Originally Posted by exfishnz

When you take the plane from West Island back to WGTN, you certainly know who the Aussie passengers are - as the plane is lining up for a very bumpy landing approach during a blow

Once while doing an assignment in Melbourne the Australian guy I was working with was a real good sort but had never been to NZ - anyway, one weekend he and his wife took me up into the Dandenongs and we had a nice day there doing the puffing billy thing, Healesville, etc. But they just look like low rolling hills to many from elsewhere.

A few weeks later he flew over to Wellington and his first words as I met him off the plane were "I can see that you wouldn't have been very impressed by the Dandenongs" .

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler

So why can't shallow draft, swing keel and lifting keel mono boats get there???

I dont know. Perhaps you could tell us? Why can't they? In fact I don't recall anyone saying they couldn't.

But would they be suitable boats for your terribly tough NZ waters, you know, those waters that no multihull would ever dare venture into?

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by exfishnz

But in a multi, I can't visit these places if on route to there I went turtle on a wave (i.e. caught out in a storm somewhere).

Yeah and you couldn't in a mono if it sank and you drowned. This is really getting boring. Have your fun telling each other how tough you Kiwi's are etc etc.

I don't usually waste my time in the monohull forum, and this has been an excellent reminder of why. I'm out of here.

[Alan Wheeler]

But would they be suitable boats for your terribly tough NZ waters, you know, those waters that no multihull would ever dare venture into?

Sure why not and by the way, just to make this totally clear, no one has stated a multi could not sail here. You are twisting words that haven't even been said.

Have your fun telling each other how tough you Kiwi's are etc etc.

And yet another twist of words. No one has suggested anything of the like. We are talking about common points of experience and in some respects, it really is between us Kiwis. Anyone is welcome to join in, we have no closed conversation, but we don't need this sort of crap dished up once again by multi-hullers.

I don't usually waste my time in the monohull forum, and this has been an excellent reminder of why. I'm out of here.

So I take it you came here just to stir the pot yet again. Your intentions have become quite clear and you started off by saying I had a Bias. Yeah right.