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Old 20-06-2008, 04:35   #31
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I have been on one of those Ferry trips that make the news....
I believe every word of it.

I knew a couple of fishermen that used to do the nasty to the landlubbers on the ferry by chewing on a meat pie & then pretending to vomit into a sickbag, apparently it used to set off a change reaction amongst nearby passengers

There's some good pic's of the ferries at Photos | NZRailways / Tranzrail / Toll - History & Photos | New Zealand Shipping and Marine Society

This one is a 20m (65') wave going past the Aramoana rail ferry.

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Old 20-06-2008, 05:16   #32
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Is now a good time to show you my appendix scar?

Seriously, those are fantastic waters and I enjoyed cruising there in 2000.

We have similar tidal ranges on the west coast of Canada (up to 26 ft) and a lot of narrow passes and overfalls, but we donít get the family of Lows that keeps all you guys honest down there.

Would love to bring my Stargazer down there.
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Old 20-06-2008, 16:22   #33
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And Aramoana going down the face of a wave in Cook Strait -

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Old 20-06-2008, 17:30   #34
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mate i think id rather take that on in a 283 ft cat than that thing any day, the slimmer hulls would tend to ride a hell of a lot better(in fact youd probably already be doing 20 knots on the plane as you pass that thing), i cant seem to see any other mono's out there but by all means id be very interested to watch footage of you out there as well in your mono.
sean
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Old 20-06-2008, 18:48   #35
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Wow.

I mean... WOW. Those are some big waves!
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Old 20-06-2008, 21:29   #36
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mate i think id rather take that on in a 283 ft cat than that thing any day, the slimmer hulls would tend to ride a hell of a lot better(in fact youd probably already be doing 20 knots on the plane as you pass that thing), i cant seem to see any other mono's out there but by all means id be very interested to watch footage of you out there as well in your mono.
sean
Don't be so sure.

There was a large cat (roll on roll off wave piercer built by Incat) that was heavily damage in these types of waves operating in the same waters. From memory, the cat couldn't go in waves much above 3m.
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Old 20-06-2008, 23:39   #37
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Correct. The height limit was 3m which meant the darn thing had a cancelled sailing everyother day over the winter. It was frustrating. On the odd time I traveled across on it, you couldn't stand. Trying to move around took some serious balance and a good wave could send you flying. But that was due to it's speed. I imagine it could handle bigger seas going slower, but certainly nothing anywhere near that of the Mono hull ferries. The max cut off for a mono hull is 7M with the odd sailing that gets across to be met with 10m. Do I dare say this? It is not meant to be a yank on any multi owners chains OK. But IMO, I would not want to take on those sea's in any multi. It's bloody scary enough in a mono.
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Old 20-06-2008, 23:42   #38
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Here's a funny story. I have a friend, (in fact he was my Boss for a few years) that was a cook on the rail ferries. He told me that when it got a little ruff, they didn't wash the dishes. They chucked the dishes out the port hole and told the big cheeses that the plates got broken.
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Old 21-06-2008, 17:34   #39
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Originally Posted by exfishnz View Post
Don't be so sure.

There was a large cat (roll on roll off wave piercer built by Incat) that was heavily damage in these types of waves operating in the same waters. From memory, the cat couldn't go in waves much above 3m.
Been a long series of big fast wavepiercing cats (these were very big ones, like 320 foot, 98 metres) and a few fast mono wavepiercers run on the Strait but no more as given up as inappropriate. They first appeared as part of competitive moves among the companies rather than strict economic and appropriateness ones - they did serve an important part in breaking the near monopoly of NZ Railways on the ferry service though.

The one that was damaged was a mono wavepiercer which bent its bow back going out the entrance of Wellington harbour when it struck a wave higher than others when at speed.

Pretty sure I recall correctly that the big cats were limited to 2.5 metre significant wave height (so some waves reaching over 3 m) which is pretty compromising for an over 300 foot ship operating where such are common. As Alan said they spent a lot of time stopped during the winter, especially - and for some years they only ran them during the summer sending them back to the Northern Hemisphere for the summer services there.
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Old 21-06-2008, 19:17   #40
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Cook Strait storm front

Alan Wheeler & MidLandOne may recognize these types of pic's of storm fronts approaching the Cook Strait

(re: naturespic.com).

(taken from Sinclair head looking out towards Karori light)






One time we were fishing on the far edge of the Straits - up around the NE corner of Cape Palliser. The previous night's forecast was for moderate weather, so we woke up @ 4am & shot about 6nm of lines. Just as we finished & were about to have breakie, we got a forecast warning of a southerly for about 30-40kts to hit us in about 6 hours. I looked to the south & (this is no BS) I saw this massive black cloud front approaching at high speed. Within 30mins (not 6 hrs) she had hit us & her gusts were a lot stronger than 40kts We spent about 3 days getting beaten around (this may also be the blow that I posted about a large wave that hit us @ Cruisers & Sailing Forums - View Single Post - Whats the biggest waves you've experienced in open water?). The prob with long blows is that the sea's just keep building, also when the blow stops they take longer to subside.

I've noticed that some people's posts on this forum state (to ocean newbies inquiring about rough weather) "you shouldn't be caught out in a blow if you get a forecast", when the simple fact is that weather in some parts of the world is still very hard to predict (forecast) & IMHO you should always prepare yourself to be hit with a blow anywhere at anytime.
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Old 21-06-2008, 19:32   #41
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Originally Posted by MidLandOne View Post
Been a long series of big fast wavepiercing cats (these were very big ones, like 320 foot, 98 metres) and a few fast mono wavepiercers run on the Strait but no more as given up as inappropriate. They first appeared as part of competitive moves among the companies rather than strict economic and appropriateness ones - they did serve an important part in breaking the near monopoly of NZ Railways on the ferry service though.

The one that was damaged was a mono wavepiercer which bent its bow back going out the entrance of Wellington harbour when it struck a wave higher than others when at speed.

Pretty sure I recall correctly that the big cats were limited to 2.5 metre significant wave height (so some waves reaching over 3 m) which is pretty compromising for an over 300 foot ship operating where such are common. As Alan said they spent a lot of time stopped during the winter, especially - and for some years they only ran them during the summer sending them back to the Northern Hemisphere for the summer services there.
IIRC the cat service from Melbourne to Tasmania was limited to 3m SWH.

Our crossing was delayed by one day due to this. I was actually able to speak to the captain of that boat and he said the 3m was an arbitrary figure someone had pulled out of thin air.

As he pointed out, the day before the waves were just over 3m, and we weren't allowed to sail, but that day they were just under 3m and there we were, doing 40-45 knots, in complete safety and comfort.

No doubt the frequent (unneccessary) cancellations contributed to the cat service being cancelled.
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Old 21-06-2008, 19:39   #42
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Correct. The height limit was 3m which meant the darn thing had a cancelled sailing everyother day over the winter. It was frustrating. On the odd time I traveled across on it, you couldn't stand. Trying to move around took some serious balance and a good wave could send you flying. But that was due to it's speed. I imagine it could handle bigger seas going slower, but certainly nothing anywhere near that of the Mono hull ferries. The max cut off for a mono hull is 7M with the odd sailing that gets across to be met with 10m. Do I dare say this? It is not meant to be a yank on any multi owners chains OK. But IMO, I would not want to take on those sea's in any multi. It's bloody scary enough in a mono.
You're letting your bias get in the way of rational thought here IMHO. Remember we're talking about SHIPS here, not keelboats. Ships don't self right. If they get turned over they stay that way. They rely on form stability to stay upright, just like multihulls do.

A multihull SHIP of the same length but with greater beam would obviously have greater form stability.
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Old 21-06-2008, 19:53   #43
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I guess life is all about compromises. If owning a multihull means I cant go here:



well, I can live with that. In fact you macho mono guys are quite welcome to it.

Deep keelers cant go where I CAN go, such as here:

Or here:

Or here:

So I'm happy with the compromise.
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Old 21-06-2008, 20:05   #44
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You're letting your bias get in the way of rational thought
I just knew it, someone had to didn't they. LOOK!!! I HAVE NO BLOODY BIAS!!! Full stop, end of point, I don't want to hear it again. And I am not going to debate this anymore.
Now back to our regular discussion.
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No doubt the frequent (unneccessary) cancellations contributed to the cat service being cancelled.
No, the reason they left NZ was due to the wake these things were creating. In the beginning the trip across was about 1.5hrs for the Fastcats and 3.5hrs for the mono's. Because of the speed of the fastcats, the wake had such tremendous energy and was ripping apart the fragile coastline in the sounds. So the vessels had to reduce speed within the sound. Then due to shipping in the Wellington harbour, they had to slow there also. Then they had to reduce speed when the sea was getting a little lumpy. So in the end, most trips took three hrs. The slower moving mono ships take 3.5hrs and the really big ones that have now been introduced knocked that down to closer to three hrs as well. By the time the Fastcats turned and backed into the berths, the Rail ferry was arriving. It wasn't worth spending the extra dollars to take the so called faster ride.
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Old 21-06-2008, 20:08   #45
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A multihull SHIP of the same length but with greater beam would obviously have greater form stability.
Really??? If that's true then where are they? They don't even have swath (twin submerged hull's) ships down here.



In regards to bias opinions on multi's, I don't speak for anyone else, but I actually seriously considered a cat design (42' alloy from Canada) for global cruising, until I remembered what I went though back in my fishing day's in NZ. Like I wrote in a thread last weekend, I can work with a designer to make a water tight self righting mono (in large sea's), but I can't do that with a multi.
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