Australian Customs - Deterrent to Visiting Oz ?

[ozskipper]

Customs Act 1901 section 72.13 or Division 307 of the Criminal Code
Australian ships outside territorial seas of other countries

(3) The officer may board a ship if:

(a) the ship is an Australian ship; and

(b) the ship is outside the territorial sea of any foreign country.

Now can we just get back to discussing monos vs multis and Bruce vs CQR please. Its much more exciting.

[Jim Cate]

Agonizing about what is truly legal, where it came from and whether it is good, true and in balance with nature may be entertaining, but really, when one enters a foreign country whilst cruising none of that matters. You simply have to deal with the specific officers that greet you. If they have had a bad day, or if for some reason they don't really like you, your experience may be bad. If you can't deal with this possibility, you should not contemplate cruising outside of your country of origin.

Doing ones homework and preparing to meet the requirements of the host country as best you can, being decently dressed and respectful to the boarding officers improves your chances of a good experience, but as Evans notes, it does not guarantee anything.

Australia is a great country to visit, it is generally friendly to Yanks and most Yanks feel quite at home there. Lots of us feel that the possibility of an unpleasant greeting from the officials isn't dire enough to make us stay away. YMMV as always, but excessive pre-emptive worry seems a waste of energy to this cruiser.

Cheers,

Jim

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by ozskipper

Customs Act 1901 section 72.13 or Division 307 of the Criminal Code (...)

Bang on, mate! Now if you can please keep your hulks off my windward while I am nearly becalmed in international waters while admiral, naked, is taking shower on the deck.

Not boarding is one thing, nearly boarding is another. Good seamanship obliges yachts, cargo ships and navy vessels equally. Or am I missing something?

Cheers,
barnie

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Agonizing about what is truly legal, where it came from and whether it is good, true and in balance with nature may be entertaining, but really, when one enters a foreign country whilst cruising none of that matters. You simply have to deal with the specific officers that greet you.

Agree completely.

Originally Posted by Factor

ACS has no lawful jurisdiction over an australian resident owned vessel in Australian waters that has not left/re-entered.

Ok I am reading . . .

CUSTOMS ACT 1901 - SECT 184A

Power to board a ship
General power to board a ship
. . .
Australian ships outside territorial seas of other countries
(3) The officer may board a ship if:
(a) the ship is an Australian ship; and
(b) the ship is outside the territorial sea of any foreign country.

That seems pretty clearly to provide the power to board an australian vessel at anytime in Australian (or international) waters without needing any sort of reasonable suspicion or warrant.

The equivalent clause for foreign vessels adds a clause requiring the boarding be for the purpose of enforcing the act or to determine if there is a contravention or the suspicion of a contravention. So, there actually appears to be more (only just a tiny bit more since its easy to have 'suspicion') protection for foreign vessels than for Australian vessels.

Foreign ships in Australian waters
(2) The officer may board a ship if:
(a) the ship is a foreign ship; and
(b) the ship is on the landward side of the outer edge of Australia's territorial sea; and
(c) either:
(i) the boarding would be for the purposes of this Act or an Act prescribed by the regulations for the purposes of this Subdivision, or for the purposes of determining whether a contravention, or an attempted contravention, in Australia of section 72.13 or Division 307 of the Criminal Code is occurring; or
(ii) the commander of a Commonwealth ship or Commonwealth aircraft reasonably suspects that the ship is, will be or has been involved in a contravention, or an attempted contravention, in Australia of section 72.13 or Division 307 of the Criminal Code .

[ozskipper]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Bang on, mate! Now if you can please keep your hulks off my windward while I am nearly becalmed in international waters while admiral, naked, is taking shower on the deck.

Not boarding is one thing, nearly boarding is another. Good seamanship obliges yachts, cargo ships and navy vessels equally. Or am I missing something?

Cheers,
barnie

You have a naked woman on deck , yet you're sitting at the puter. OMG, thats dedication to the forum You should get an extra star for that Barnie

[savoir]

Golly gosh I'm under attack ! All hands to the pumps !

Start with the Brits and possibilities of inheritance.

The Australian customs guys can't do just anything, they can only do the stuff that Australia's parliament says they can. Australia's parliament can't do anything either. It is limited to only doing the things that Australia's constitution says it can do which in the case of customs is section 86 ( and some others ) which says " On the establishment of the Commonwealth, the collection and control of duties of customs and of excise, and the control of the payment of bounties, shall pass to the Executive Government of the Commonwealth ". Australia's constitution did not spring from a vacuum and it didn't spring from the Australian states either.

Australia's constitution was a law of the British House of Commons passed on 9 July 1900. Here is the front page

Commonwealth of Australia Constitution Act 1900

Australia was created by the Brits and the basic structure of its customs law follows the basic structure of British customs law. Same for Canada, NZ, South Africa, Fiji, and lots of little places like Bermuda or BVI.

Don't worry Deep Frz, I'll cover Canadian customs law later. Canada's system has a bit bit more of a recently added bill of rights slant but started out the same. Gotta do a little work. Check back in 12 hours or so.

As for " there is no POWER INHERITED FROM THE POMS " - the poms granted Australia its constitution, the ultimate document that gives power to the customs guys to do all their nasty stuff.

[IslandHopper]

Originally Posted by savoir

Golly gosh I'm under attack ! All hands to the pumps !

Start with the Brits and possibilities of inheritance.

The Australian customs guys can't do just anything, they can only do the stuff that Australia's parliament says they can. Australia's parliament can't do anything either. It is limited to only doing the things that Australia's constitution says it can do which in the case of customs is section 86 ( and some others ) which says " On the establishment of the Commonwealth, the collection and control of duties of customs and of excise, and the control of the payment of bounties, shall pass to the Executive Government of the Commonwealth ". Australia's constitution did not spring from a vacuum and it didn't spring from the Australian states either.

Australia's constitution was a law of the British House of Commons passed on 9 July 1900. Here is the front page

Commonwealth of Australia Constitution Act 1900

Australia was created by the Brits and the basic structure of its customs law follows the basic structure of British customs law. Same for Canada, NZ, South Africa, Fiji, and lots of little places like Bermuda or BVI.

Don't worry Deep Frz, I'll cover Canadian customs law later. Canada's system has a bit bit more of a recently added bill of rights slant but started out the same. Gotta do a little work. Check back in 12 hours or so.

As for " there is no POWER INHERITED FROM THE POMS " - the poms granted Australia its constitution, the ultimate document that gives power to the customs guys to do all their nasty stuff.

Nice little spiel but that has absolutely nothing to do with the behaviour of Customs (or any other arm of security in Aus) post 911....

The Bush/Howard love affair took care of that, not the constitution of 1900.....

[Billy Higgins]

To flesh out some of the rumours I've heard on entering Australia, what would a typical cruising yacht - say 36 feet, two aboard, no pets - expect to pay when entering/clearing Australia? I expect to clear in only at Darwin, and depart for Mauritius directly from there.

[Johnathon123]

It's not just boats.

This mornings Sydney Morning Herald has an interesting article on customs and quarantine at the airport, very consistent with my own experience.

And we wonder why tourism numbers are down!

AQIS | Quarantine | Declare and beware: warm welcome wouldn't hurt

[yeloya]

Originally Posted by Johnathon123

And we wonder why tourism numbers are down!

There is another reason I guess: extremely strong AUS dollar..

Yeloya

[gixerjen]

I don't know much about aussie customs. . . other than they are a little scary. . . but I have travelled from Melbourne, around the coast to Sydney, by car.

it was awesome! I would say if you think you can brave the customs it's definitely worth a look. I would love to go back. don't give up your dream . . .

[ozskipper]

Originally Posted by gixerjen

I don't know much about aussie customs. . . other than they are a little scary. . . but I have travelled from Melbourne, around the coast to Sydney, by car.

it was awesome! I would say if you think you can brave the customs it's definitely worth a look. I would love to go back. don't give up your dream . . .

Public servants eh. Its a global issue. However, I note that when in Fiji the year before last our entire plane load was given gifts of shell necklaces as we left the customs area. People actually said "thanks for coming to fiji, enjoy your stay".

obviously, these people were from fiji tourism not customs. But it softened the stress of getting off a plane and going through that usual airport, baggage, customs, transport dramas.

[gixerjen]

Originally Posted by ozskipper

obviously, these people were from fiji tourism not customs. But it softened the stress of getting off a plane and going through that usual airport, baggage, customs, transport dramas.

going to oz WAS stressful - we thought the customs "guards" in Dubai were going to shoot us! and the forms we had to fill in before landing in Australia were pretty full on. . . and that's not including 24 hours in the air :O

but it was worth it

that said, I sometimes wish Britain took a little more care over their borders, so I can see why they do it. . . Fiji sounds heavenly though - that's how beaurocracy should be. . .

[akio.kanemoto]

Katiusha,

Firstly, I will state that I have been living here in Sydney for most of my life and have travelled extensively both within Australia and internationally.

Australia is the Ultimate nanny state.

You live here by the grace of God, hoping that you don't get busted for SOMETHING, because, apart from going to work and working for a salary for a large corporate - everything else is more-or-less illegal in some way.

Every single day there is a new law banning something, or making something else more difficult, or increasing a tax etc etc..

It's a beautiful country, with nice people, but the government in all its forms and all its versions makes it a hell to live in if you wish to do anything apart from the aforementioned "work for a salary" and have some quiet time to yourself at home on the weekend.

So the baseline is that everything is illegal here, and you hope that the police/government etc aren't specifically looking at any given time for something to fine you for.

Stay small and under the radar and there is hope that you will get away living a normal life and doing normal things.. and maybe even having a pleasant cruise. BUT DON'T TAKE IT FOR GRANTED!

What do I mean by this?

Say you want to paint your deck with non-slip (my current task!) - sure, go ahead and do it, but officially, by law, you're not allowed to do any maintenance work on your mooring. So there's a 99% chance that nobody will care, but if they want you busted, you're gone.

Say you want to install some deck hardware... yep, Officially a no-no.

Say you want to change your oil filter... Officially nope.

Of course this is really stretching it - and if you took it to court it would probably be come out ok, but the point is that at face value, these are all unlawful activities.

In fact, there are a myriad of further specific examples like this in a boating context including the number of nights at anchor, the fact that it is officially illegal to live aboard, blah blah blah.... and it is impossible to know them all (but ignorance of the law is no excuse apparently)

Did you see what happened to the Sydney version of the Occupy Wall Street movement? They were evicted by dozens of police in no time, under the "no camping" law. Right to free speech? Not here.

There is always some law that can be used to shaft you for SOMETHING here.

My mooring is a few hundred metres from the wharf/boat ramp. I have a largish RIB with an outboard motor which I use to go back and forth - I don't go anywhere else, don't do circles and create a huge wash/wake and scream like the wakeboarding boats - just one boring trip in the morning and a boring trip back in the evening... All good... Just last week though, after hundreds of these trips, my number came up. On the way back, there was a police boat on the wharf checking every boat that came back, looking for SOMETHING (ANYTHING!). I was busted for.. wait for it.. not wearing a lifejacket. ARE YOU KIDDING!!?

It appears that there is now a new law, if you are in a vessel shorter than 4.8m (~15ft) and you are alone.. regardless of whether the vessel is a tender or not, you MUST wear a lifejacket. Even if your entire trip is only 10m/yards from shore in a protected bay, in full daylight, to your big-arse sailboat with your epirb, satphone, liferaft blah blah blah on it.

Other boats were being fined for various things ranging from not carrying a whistle/paddle/bucket to not having a fishing license. Police and almost anybody with any authority here is an intimidating bully. (and don't expect to rely on them for help if you call 000/911.. you're on your own. - but that's another thread!)

Roads are the same, breath tests for alcohol/DUI etc - at bizarre times - like Monday mornings on main roads (WHY?!?!?) Speed cameras in the middle of nowhere where there is no safety issue... you name it.. I was caught by the highway patrol on radar at 3am in a coastal holiday town some 10 years ago doing 60km/h (30mph?) in a 50km/h (35mph?) on a straight stretch, with no houses around.

So if you come here, chances are that - apart from your initial compulsory meeting with authority/customs etc - you might be lucky enough to "get away" with having a normal time and having a normal cruise, but if your number comes up, that's that.

I live in fear every day that yet some more of my freedoms will be taken away, or those freedoms which were already taken away by new laws months/years ago will begin to be enforced.

[ozskipper]

Originally Posted by Billy Higgins

To flesh out some of the rumours I've heard on entering Australia, what would a typical cruising yacht - say 36 feet, two aboard, no pets - expect to pay when entering/clearing Australia? I expect to clear in only at Darwin, and depart for Mauritius directly from there.

Billy, this page should answer some of the logistical questions

information for pleasure craft travelling to australia - introduction

Customs service does not have charges. AQUIS (Aus Quarantine Inspection Service) does have some charges and rules you will need to know about.

AQIS requirements for imported vessels with timber components - DAFF

fee structure here

Vessel Clearance Fees and Charges - DAFF . To paraphrase that page the charges are $330 for up to a 1.5 hour inspection.

Timber boats will be the biggest burden, But anyone in a plastic or steel boat wont have too many problems with them.