Australian Customs - Deterrent to Visiting Oz ?

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by Don Lucas

What the heck, is there an Aussie agruement amongst each other here about the laws that others need to be aware of to enter the country?

I think we should get the aussies to argue how much power the queen has in OZ. I will quote their constitution to start it off

'The executive power of the Commonwealth is vested in the Queen and is exercisable by the Governor‑General as the Queen’s representative, and extends to the execution and maintenance of this Constitution, and of the laws of the Commonwealth'.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by cat man do

The boat is my home, it is my residence.

I think you will find that with Customs it's a boat first, and your home second.

I bet Customs the world over love it when someone turns up quoting the Law of the Internet (a combination of half truths and wishful thinking ). I know I would

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

I think you will find that with Customs it's a boat first, and your home second.

Have you any legislative evidence to support that comment?

I bet Customs the world over love it when someone turns up quoting the Law of the Internet (a combination of half truths and wishful thinking ). I know I would

Except it is not the "law of the internet" is it.
What I quoted was "actual" legislative law, documented and published.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

I think we should get the aussies to argue how much power the queen has in OZ.

Queen? Pffft, who cares about the queen

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by savoir

Oh well, I can only wish you the best of luck in telling that to the boys and girls as they board.

Well I wont be bending over and taking it with a smile on my face thats for sure .

The yachting life: Where border protection and privacy rights clash
KATE DENNEHY
October 24, 2010

Privacy adfrift: Are Customs authorities treating Australian yachties as second class citizens?
High-profile civil liberties lawyer Terry O’Gorman has slammed the Customs and Border Protection Service for treating yachties like ‘‘second-class citizens’’.

Mr O’Gorman said last week he ‘‘strongly disputed’’ the service’s claim that its officers could board privately owned Australian vessels anywhere, any time in Australian waters without an owner’s permission.

Australian and foreign yacht owners have objected to alleged ‘‘offhand and aggressive behaviour’’ by Customs and Border Protection officers who have demanded to board their boats.

A customs spokesperson has told Fairfax Media's The Sun-Herald that there were several legislative bases under which officers could board privately owned recreation vessels without the owner’s permission.
‘‘Primarily these powers are derived from the Customs Act 1901 and in particular sections 184A(3), 185 and 187 would all apply,’’ the statement said.
‘‘None of these powers would require officers to obtain warrants or the owner’s permission before completing boarding of such vessels.’’

But Mr O’Gorman, vice-president of the Queensland Council for Civil Liberties said the answer was ‘‘certainly not’’ unequivocal.
"‘My view after reading the act is that Customs does not have the power to board Australian yachts in Australian waters without the owner’s express permission,’’ he said.
‘‘Yachties are entitled to argue that the Customs Act protects their right to privacy.’’
He said the officers must have ‘‘reasonable suspicions’’ of criminal activity before boarding without permission.
"‘Yachties aren’t second-class citizens just because they’re travelling on a boat and they have just as many rights to privacy as people living in houses,’’ he said.
He said he thought the question of foreign-owned vessels in Australian waters was less clear.
The Sun-Herald sought clarification from the Home Affairs and Justice Minister, Brendan O’Connor, who referred the matter back to the Customs and Border Protection Service. A spokesman for the service said it stood by its legal opinion.
Mr O’Gorman said yacht owners should not have to ‘‘undergo the trauma of a court case’’ or disrupt their travels to test the law.
‘‘If I am wrong in my legal opinion then the law should be changed. Yachties shouldn’t have lesser rights than people who live in houses,’’ he said.


Read more: Australian Customs I yachting I

add: I dont have an issue with them searching my vessel when entering the country, but I do have an issue with them if they want to board and search if I have not left the country, especially if they are wanting to do it for no other reason than than they carry the guns and wear the kicker boots.

[ozskipper]

Originally Posted by cat man do

Well I wont be bending over and taking it with a smile on my face thats for sure .



add: I dont have an issue with them searching my vessel when entering the country, but I do have an issue with them if they want to board and search if I have not left the country, especially if they are wanting to do it for no other reason than than they carry the guns and wear the kicker boots.

I wouldn't care if they wanted to search my boat to be honest. I know its a part of their job and if the boat they randomly search after mine is full of cocaine - happy days. Its a bit like RBT. I have zip to worry about unless I have been drinking.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by ozskipper

I wouldn't care if they wanted to search my boat to be honest. I know its a part of their job and if the boat they randomly search after mine is full of cocaine - happy days. Its a bit like RBT. I have zip to worry about unless I have been drinking.

So you will be happy with the cops coming into your house as they please searching for whatever?
Thats what you are saying right?

And , if I haven't been out of the country, therefore I haven't come back into the country, how the hell would I have a boat load of cocaine?
Why would they need to search?
Riddle me that?

[Aussie_Sequoia]

I can't believe this thread. God... if you're too afraid to come to Oz... don't! There's plenty of other places you can go.

Me, I love it here.

I have family (and spent part of my life in) the US. I dread entering and leaving that country... scary military waiting for you with automatic weapons and huge dogs and cancer giving x-ray body scanners. Nobody is friendly going through immigration and customs and everyone I've seen go through is treated like a terrorist from the first look.

When I come to Oz, it's "G'day mate where ya comin' from? Did ya have a nice trip?". The dogs are little beagles. I love coming home.

So much fret and worry over AQIS. I think that it is just a very different mindset here about our fragile ecosystem. NZ is also very strict about introduced species. It's an island thing. $330 to get inspected? The cost of trying to deal with new pests is far more - and let the folks who pose the most risk pay for the risk reduction. Cheap compared to world cruising.

Geez, I'm in Mexico at the moment - that's $130 for the TIP, $25 for the pass to visit any islands, $200 mandatory Mexican insurance, $150 for 3 crew fishing license just to catch some dinner, and if you pay like you're supposed to, than another $1/day (times 6 months for me = $180) to anchor out anywhere! The Navy can board your boat at anytime and ask for paperwork. That's $650 to cruise around Baja for 6 months and there's more Americans here than anyone... and I don't hear many folks complaining about it!

I dunno... awfully hard to pigeonhole a whole country with a landmass larger than the US... full of natural wonders found nowhere else on the planet... based on a couple of articles. Can't you just play their game for a few hours?

[ozskipper]

Originally Posted by cat man do

So you will be happy with the cops coming into your house as they please searching for whatever?
Thats what you are saying right?

And , if I haven't been out of the country, therefore I haven't come back into the country, how the hell would I have a boat load of cocaine?
Why would they need to search?
Riddle me that?

If it makes for a safer place for my kids to live- no problems. But in reality, its a bit hard to sneak drugs into the country using a house. Storage yeah, but not as transport.

Its an old trick to dump the sh&t overboard as approaching the destination, then have someone else go out and pick it up in a domestic boat. So yeah, you or I "could" be suspected of having it on board. Similarly, you or I "Could" be suspected of taking wildlife out to a vessel that is leaving.

As I said. If a bit of inconvenience makes for a safer place to live, I am all for it.

[ozskipper]

Originally Posted by Aussie_Sequoia

I can't believe this thread. God... if you're too afraid to come to Oz... don't! There's plenty of other places you can go.

Me, I love it here.

I have family (and spent part of my life in) the US. I dread entering and leaving that country... scary military waiting for you with automatic weapons and huge dogs and cancer giving x-ray body scanners. Nobody is friendly going through immigration and customs and everyone I've seen go through is treated like a terrorist from the first look.

When I come to Oz, it's "G'day mate where ya comin' from? Did ya have a nice trip?". The dogs are little beagles. I love coming home.

So much fret and worry over AQIS. I think that it is just a very different mindset here about our fragile ecosystem. NZ is also very strict about introduced species. It's an island thing. $330 to get inspected? The cost of trying to deal with new pests is far more - and let the folks who pose the most risk pay for the risk reduction. Cheap compared to world cruising.

Geez, I'm in Mexico at the moment - that's $130 for the TIP, $25 for the pass to visit any islands, $200 mandatory Mexican insurance, $150 for 3 crew fishing license just to catch some dinner, and if you pay like you're supposed to, than another $1/day (times 6 months for me = $180) to anchor out anywhere! The Navy can board your boat at anytime and ask for paperwork. That's $650 to cruise around Baja for 6 months and there's more Americans here than anyone... and I don't hear many folks complaining about it!

I dunno... awfully hard to pigeonhole a whole country with a landmass larger than the US... full of natural wonders found nowhere else on the planet... based on a couple of articles. Can't you just play their game for a few hours?

You win the Post Of The Week Award mate! Summed it all up perfectly.

[savoir]

Originally Posted by cat man do

Have you any legislative evidence to support that comment?



Except it is not the "law of the internet" is it.
What I quoted was "actual" legislative law, documented and published.

The Australian version has already been quoted. Here is the British one with no ifs, buts, maybes or any other exception. If it floats they can search it.

" 27 (1) At any time while a ship is within the limits of a port . . . . . any officer and any other person duly engaged in the prevention of smuggling may board the ship . . . . . and remain therein and search and rummage any part thereof. "

They can detain any person without a warrant as long as they have " reasonable grounds to suspect " (s138)

[surfmachine]

Avast there shipmates, its all the huge amounts of money that the liberal govt' threw at "border protection" mirroring our USA buddies, that has caused the employment of heaps of young punks, who have been given 30 days training and told to "fly by the RULE BOOK, and dont take no lip from those yachtie scum or hippies from Sth AMerica, Sth Africa, Asia or or other un-austalian places!??" It got Johhnie Howard back into government one more time. Bashing the foriegner/commie/non white/hippy can, keep em out??

Most of the mature ladies and men of the service are now flying desks and dont get involved at the sharp end of dealing with sailing hippies! So, until these punks leave or grow up you will have to put up with it!?

I personally, an aussie citizen, find Australia a far worse place to enter than the USA or any other country, Malaysia is the best so far?

But I always look forward to coming home, I love it!!!
I welcome the planes flying over the coast and when surfing always wave to them when surfing up north near Carnarvan, or talk on the VHF if sailing, sometimes they do wing overs near me when I have been hang gliding on the coastal cliffs at Cape Leeuwin, wonderful.

Had the "local security" in Indonesia show up 2 days ago in the Telos Islands and came aboard, they were fishing nearby in plain clothes in an old speedboat, "good cover", I invited them aboard as it started to pour down with rain, and they ate our fresh, warm bread with real butter and mulberry jam, then produced their nice 38 cal pistols with beautiful wooden handles for us to admire, very friendly, just doing a survey they said.!! Then took off when the rain stopped. At least the aussie quarrantine guys are not armed!!! Had one Indonesian guy with and M16 automatic rifle monstering me once in the Banyaks, biggest gun on the island, he told me!!

So please dont be too hard on the good old aussie custums and quarrantine people?

Fair winds from Keith.

[savoir]

I'm surprised they didn't ask for a "gift".

You know how those Indo guys are at the airport " Your visa is incorrect and I am fining you $50. You must come with me to the police station or if you like you pay fine now."

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by Aussie_Sequoia

When I come to Oz, it's "G'day mate where ya comin' from? Did ya have a nice trip?". The dogs are little beagles. I love coming home.

Thats in a plane
Different story in a boat I am told.

And as far as the US being harsh, their rules for boats coming, once again

Looks to me I just casually sail into a US port, make a phone call say, "I'm here" and get directed somewhere for inspection

A phone call on arrival and then they turn up and search, just like most places in the world.
How civilised is that

[Aussie_Sequoia]

Sure, but my point is that in the US, even in a plane, homeland security added so many hurdles to fly in or out that they now ask you to show up to the airport like 4 hours early just to get through it (or at least did for most of the last ten years).

That's literally hundreds of thousands of hours of people held up every week for inspections and invasions of privacy, photographs, thumbprints, x-rays, shoe searches etc... and yet... plenty of people still travel to and from the US everyday.

Let's be realistic and put this in perspective. People are willing to look past officialdom at home, but not in someone else's country?

As I said, there are plenty of other places for them to go.