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Old 07-11-2010, 04:13   #46
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i will intentionally seek out uncrowded anchorages,
One thing I've learned cruising was to keep an open mind about everything. At the start there were grand ideas of only using the engine when absolutely necessary, sailing everywhere.
Now I just don't know how i will react to situations, given up and just wait and see what happens.
but good luck, i hope it goes well.

Next time round i want a bigger engine so trips up those big rivers are less of a worry.
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Old 07-11-2010, 05:09   #47
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One thing I've learned cruising was to keep an open mind about everything. At the start there were grand ideas ....
Next time round i want a bigger engine so trips up those big rivers are less of a worry.
Absolutly agree with Conachair.
Or as my Mum used to say: 'Don't cut off your nose to spite your face.' (Mind you I thought she had said 'despite' so its interesting to realise I was a deaf goose too...) Great history to this phrase: Cutting off the nose to spite the face - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is few people that want a desert island. Most want a place brimming with life.

The life we wish to see on this planet is more than just fish, or just trees, or just coral, or just animals. Its all life in its fullest diversity... and that includes all humans in their broadest cultures.

To not have the ability to see all the things along our cruising path is an utter shame.
Indeed there are somethings we must see even though they may disgust us and, if safety considerations allow then, its almost an imperative to see them if we are to call ourselves educated, or environmentally conscious, etc.

The photo below was from Pusan (Busan) in South Korea (US vets will know it). I did a job there for a few weeks. It may not be what we want to be a part of. But how can we appreciate a 'desert' island without being able to reference it?

Sometimes its important to be able to get up a well known river without being up that well known estuary without means of propulsion.

Mark
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Old 07-11-2010, 06:42   #48
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Once again you are correct. Threads seem to drift, and I drifted along with it. I don't know if #36 was a question, or not. Possibly a challenge, and I stand by my answer there. Learn to fix it, and keep parts.

Yesterday a friend took me sailing on the bay. The wind was light, and we were approaching the Richmond Bridge from the north. The current was running 2 knots, and the boat was sailing 2 knots.

I steered the boat between the 2 towers just east of the highest part. As we were approaching the bridge the current had a sudden 45 dregree turn. It started sucking us down on the tower with in a couple of seconds to port. I tried to steer to strbrd, and she wouldn't respond. I then turned to port, and the owner started the engine. Before the engine was engaged she responded, and we slipped past the tower. I definately gave you a thought!..........i2f
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Old 07-11-2010, 08:30   #49
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Most cruisers, including me, are running boats which are too big to safely singlehand or shorthand in tight quarters, and therefore need an engine. A fully crewed boat has a reasonable chance of getting in and out of most atolls engineless but most of us don't want to put up with the extra mouths and egos. An engine is cheap compared to extra crew, and I for one prefer the comforts of a larger boat.

If I were planning on single-handing without an engine, I would figure I could handle a maximum of 6,000 pounds of boat--something small enough that I would have a reasonable chance of getting off a reef by myself, or fending off other boats when the anchor dragged, etc. Your boat is about twice that, and you are going to want another person--not all the time, but when you want to do something tricky, like tack into an atoll.

While I have won more than my share of races and have double-handed my 30,000 pound boat into anchorages without an engine when I had to, planning to do it would be sheer folly. If you decide to ignore the advice and then lose the boat and write a book about it, you won't be the first.
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Old 07-11-2010, 09:41   #50
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I have sailed my Westsail 32 without an engine, and it was a pain. I did a lot of kedging. I remember the authorities making me move in St. Thomas harbor when I had no engine. It was impossible to sail, and and I did lots of very long kedges. Not much fun.

That being said, if you have a small highly responsive yacht under 30 feet, and if you have lots of time, and an ocean full of good luck, you may survive going in and out of some atolls. Getting in and out of the atolls is the easy part. Once you are inside, you are trapped in the mouth of a Venus Fly Trap. There are coral heads all around, and if you drag anchor and the wind is unfavorable, you are doomed. I have sat at anchor at night with an engine running to keep the strain off the anchor because if the anchor lets go, the trip is over.

When we were in Suvarov, there were coral heads everywhere. Sailing a boat into a position where you could drop an anchor is a nightmare. There is limited maneuverability even for a yacht that has an anchor. Add to that the fact that the best places for anchoring have already been taken by yachts who are already there.

You could go into Suvarov if the winds were light, and the anchorage was empty, and you had a 100 pound anchor that never dragged, and if the trade winds didn't blow hard for as long as you were inside the atoll.

We only stayed one night in Suvarov because the winds were blowing 30 knots, and it was not safe for even a catamaran that had two engines. The night after we left, a large commercial fishing trawler dragged anchor into a cruising sailboat.

If you happen to sail into the Pacific during a year when the reinforced trades are blowing, you will be very limited as to where you can go unless you have a disposable boat.

Just because you have an engine doesn't mean you have to use it. One of my friends sailed from South Africa to New Zealand on one tank of fuel. After all, he was a sailor on a sail boat. His fifty foot monohull had two engines, but he only used them for going through passes and anchoring. He was one of the best sailors I have known.

I have gone sailing with no engines, one engine, and two engines. I prefer two engines, and both of them are running when I am anchoring or going though passes and tight spaces where disaster could happen.

Just because I have an engine doesn't mean I have to use it. I have a choice. If I get rid of my engines, I no longer have a choice, and my options decrease and the risk to my yacht and crew sustantially increase. Those engines are more than a convenience. They are an insurance policy for a safe voyage.
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Old 07-11-2010, 10:13   #51
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One of the previous owners of my boat put a 33hp diesel on her...some say it is over powered, but there are times when an engine in a sail boat can be considered a piece of safety equipment (40kt headwinds with a lee shore).
On the other hand being able to get in an out of anchorages under sail is good practice and a fine example of seamanship.....the engine becomes more of an auxiliary if you find less of a reason to use it, which also extends your cruising range somewhat.
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Old 07-11-2010, 11:03   #52
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On the other hand being able to get in an out of anchorages under sail is good practice and a fine example of seamanship..... .
Its a fine example of sailing skills, NOT seamanship.
A fine example of seamanship is doing it the safest possible way, isn't it?
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Old 07-11-2010, 11:21   #53
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Very true, operating a sailing vessel or a row boat without an engine in a busy or industrial 1st world or other harbor can not only very difficult, it can be considered illegal as you cannot comply with the rules of the road about getting out of the way of ships in channels, etc. You can also get run over and dead as the super container ship cannot stop or alter course in a channel.
- - If you keep only to non-commercial and backwater places then fine, no problem - providing as stated by others you have the crew and expertise to tack across currents upwind. I have seen 50 ft schooners weave though Soper's Hole mooring field under sail. Very impressive, but would terrify me if I attempted it.
- - Hanging a proper sized outboard on the stern or better yet built into a motor well gives you safe options so you can go most everywhere.
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Old 07-11-2010, 11:41   #54
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Pacific atolls aside, there are plenty of places on a rocky, glacier-formed coast (Maine, Chile, NZ south island, etc), where an anchor might not save you from drifting onto a ledge with a strong current on a windless day. The depth can go from 150 ft to zero in only a few boat lengths.

That's why the coastal schooners spent a lot of time waiting on the hook, in wide, rolly anchorages, for their wind and tide. They avoided many of the most beautiful, interesting, and protected bays and passages.
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Old 07-11-2010, 17:41   #55
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rephrase....it is good practice to be able to get in and out ( fore that matter do as much as possible) under sail and by the same token it is good practice to be prepared for when you can't...the way some people operate their sail boats the engine is the primary form of propulsion with the sails being the auxiliary and I am not talking about motor sailors.
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Old 07-11-2010, 18:11   #56
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I was talking to a lady today who said that she and her late husband spent some time at this atoll in the south pacific many years ago and the entrance was a reach to the the prevailing winds. In this photo it looks like the main channel runs about 90 degrees to the wave pattern.

Kanton Island : Image of the Day
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Old 09-11-2010, 20:26   #57
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Without taking sides (and holding to our engine) both atolls and Chile is certainly navigable without an engine (not a personal experience!). Read "Two on a small boat" and "Two against Cape Horn" by Hal Roth. They've succeeded to describe the terror while sailing out of Chilean channels when dragging an anchor or out of an atoll when a gale surprised them quite vividly. And lets not forget that they were ship wrecked near Cape Horn. But they did it.
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Old 24-11-2010, 12:40   #58
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hey dude good for you.pure and simple is the way to go .i find myself constantly having to defend MY choice to sail engineless.it is indeed a challenge there are many places you cant go and forget about running on anything other than mother natures time table.the risks are great but so are the rewards.the sea is the last place to be free and live life on your own terms.i never felt more alive than after facing death.if others are scared let em stay home and watch someone else do it on the discovery channel.lol if you need any help let me know.and stay away from fiji i remember reading about CIMBA set north by the current onto a reef while becalmed back in the 20s
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Old 24-11-2010, 13:22   #59
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If y'take a tow, yer not enginless, yer just usin' someone elces' engine .(IMO)
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Old 24-11-2010, 20:02   #60
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If y'take a tow, yer not enginless, yer just usin' someone elces' engine .(IMO)



PURRRFECT.........i2f
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