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kenny chaos · 09-03-2011, 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Hi
I think 20k per year is a lotta. How do you generate this amt of money while you are cruising?
We have sailed a RTW on 20k and it was 3 years' worth of sailing.
Not to criticize at all, as I found your article very interesting.
Only to add a perspective to the word "not rich".
barnie

I can't speak for this couple but in my case, I'll be able to cruise on a well equipped boat and for more than a paltry $500/month because I worked for it.
I never had a job that paid over $10/hour so I worked two and often three jobs at a time. I quit working at 48 when I was still working 90 hours a week and took off one day every two months. That's not a, "poor me," 15 hours of overtime a week, it's 50!
I raised two great kids and now they're on their own. It's time for the wife and I to continue our lives. Call us "loopers," another fat retired couple just looking to check off something on their bucket list, whatever.
We all work for and deserve exactly what we get.
Of course it was easy for me because I always loved to work.
You?

VirtualVagabond · 09-03-2011, 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Hi,

I have read your article. I think it is great. But I think the title of this thread here may be misleading.

"... Once you own a cruise worthy sailboat and nothing substantial breaks, a yearly budget of around $20 000 (including daily expenses, maintenance, haul-out and boat repairs) for two will get you sailing (and fixing) your boat in exotic places..."

Yes, but it is NOT a small budget at all.

I think 20k per year is a lotta. How do you generate this amt of money while you are cruising?

We have sailed a RTW on 20k and it was 3 years' worth of sailing.

Not to criticize at all, as I found your article very interesting.

Only to add a perspective to the word "not rich".

On the second thought, 'you don't have to...' BUT it does not hurt either, does it.

;-)

Big hug,
barnie

Barnie,
I find I agree with your point of view on most subjects, but not this time.

Her article was "You Don't Have To Be Rich To Go Cruising", and a $20,000 pa budget for a couple sure as hell isn't rich!
It's reasonably comfortable if you live the way they do, but far from rich.

Citing examples of people who can cruise on a lot less was not her point.
Her point was you don't have to be rich as most people perceive wealth, ie. millionaire types.

Most people living on land and unfamiliar with boats would think a house with $150,000 equity in it and a job paying $60-80k pa as pretty middle of the road average. Certainly far from 'rich'.
So it would come as a surprise to them that people can live the cruiser lifestyle if they had a boat instead of equity in a house, and could scrape together $20k pa.

I'm sure she would agree that some people do it on a lot less, some practically destitute even. But the people she was writing the article for were curious as to how they could live such a wonderful lifestyle, and assumed that they would have to be rich.

Personally, I think we've all been beaten up by the "I'm more on the bones of my arse than you", $500/month crowd, and made to feel if we've worked our butts off and now can enjoy a normal, low budget cruising life, we're the exception and oh so 'lucky'.

That's not to say I don't read the $500/month thread. There's loads of useful ideas and information, and the occassional entertaining stoush.

And even those of us with $20k pa need frugal cruising ideas.

So, my take on her article is you don't have to be rich. A paid for boat and $20k pa will do it.

Just my 2c... aw, what the hec... make it 5c

Liesbet · 10-03-2011, 04:50

Hello all,

Virtual Vagabond couldn't have said or understood it better. He basically gave the reaction I was going to give to Barnie. The site I wrote the article for is geared towards catamaran sailing, hence the higher "initial purchase" number, since catamarans are way more expensive than monohulls. We see our boat "Irie" as our house (and things break in any house) and we wanted her to be comfortable enough to cruise indefinitely (plus, our dogs liked a cat better than a mono) and hope to get most of the "investment" back if and when we change gears.

Of course I have friends who have smaller boats and live on way less. The $20 000 a year per couple provides a relatively comfortable life, being on a budget while shopping in supermarkets (believe me, we don't spoil ourselves often enough), but allowing for meat on the diet; cooking, eating and drinking on Irie about every night, but allowing for alcohol on board and a happy hour ashore (how can you beat $1 beers?) once in a while. I based this amount on our $1000 a month cost for general expenses (food, diesel, gas for the dinghy, eating/drinking out) and added a relatively high $8000 for boat parts (including new chain; there's always at least one big expense a year) and our -so far- yearly haul-out with a nice do-it-yourself bottom job for Irie. The $20 000 a year is a very realistic amount to go cruising, but of course it can be done for less. How much does an average couple living ashore spend every year?

Mark and I work every day, but on our own schedule and in "exotic places". We make just enough to keep this lifestyle up for a bit. Returning to the States or Europe would boost our income (and put the sailing to a halt). We'd rather do it this way. Life is all about choices...

**boatman61** · 10-03-2011, 05:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenny chaos

I can't speak for this couple but in my case, I'll be able to cruise on a well equipped boat and for more than a paltry $500/month because I worked for it.
I never had a job that paid over $10/hour so I worked two and often three jobs at a time. I quit working at 48 when I was still working 90 hours a week and took off one day every two months. That's not a, "poor me," 15 hours of overtime a week, it's 50!
I raised two great kids and now they're on their own. It's time for the wife and I to continue our lives. Call us "loopers," another fat retired couple just looking to check off something on their bucket list, whatever.
We all work for and deserve exactly what we get.
Of course it was easy for me because I always loved to work.
You?

In my case its a bit different than the norm...
I'm a wanderer... always have been and always will... shoot my 1st ocean voyage was when I was 6mths old from UK to Bombay (Mumbai)...
longest I've ever lived in one place is 11yrs and that was when I was married... otherwise it been between 6mths and 2yrs in various places around the world...
not exactly they way to 'Accumulate Wealth'
But I'm not weeping and bleeding over anyone.. it was my choice and I've lived on and owned boats that were $100K and as little as $2K...
my 'Wealth' is of a different kind...
Yes I have the odd rant on the $500 Thread.. but thats when folks with more say it cant be done with less...
in many cases they don't have a clue.. they've never tried...
nor I think would they be able to tolerate the hardship/sacrifices involved.
I understand the 'Rich' views and 'Middle' views but have no envy for Kenny or anyone else..
I'm happy for them... and on the whole I'm happy for me...
Up time and Down Time..... its all Island Time

barnakiel · 10-03-2011, 06:07

I am in 100% agreement with all what has been said above from everybody.

I also want to repeat and stress that I am neither criticizing the post nor saying it cannot be done with 20k a year in the pocket, quite contrary.

I am only saying it does not qualify as 'not rich'

I am not ever telling anybody to go cruising in a small boat on a small budget. Quite the opposite - if you look thru my attitude as seen in other threads I always say - it can be done on the cheap, but should generally be avoided.

I have seen people sailing a RTW on much less than our budget though (!!!) and I think to some readers coming across a thread in which owners of a 35 catamaran claim that 20k a year is 'you do not have to be rich' way could be sort of a party killer.

I am aware that this is probably where the bottom of the financial comfort zone of most Westerners is, but I am yet to meet a 'not rich' cruiser with this level of cruising kitty.

To me, 150k for a boat and 20k a year in the cruising kitty does not sound like 'not rich'.

b.

DoubleWhisky · 10-03-2011, 08:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by barnakiel

To me, 150k for a boat and 20k a year in the cruising kitty does not sound like 'not rich'.
b.

O.K. First time I learnt I'm rich

May be even very rich

Thank You Barnie

It almost make me happy... Almost - because my Admiral - for some mysterious reason - do not think and feel alongside this way...

And... my feeling is that there are more possibilities than simple "poor - rich" dichotomy. Most of us on CF fell probably somewhere between "rich" and "poor" categories. Most of cruisers are the people of the middle - I suppose...

PamlicoTraveler · 10-03-2011, 09:49

Quote:

Most people living on land and unfamiliar with boats would think a house with $150,000 equity in it and a job paying $60-80k pa as pretty middle of the road average.

Do some people really have equity in their houses?

Liesbet · 10-03-2011, 13:12

To Snort,

The broker turned friend we used is Tommy Smith. He used to work for the Catamaran Company in Annapolis, but has since started his own business with his girlfriend Amy: Sail Away Catamarans
About Us

Say hi to him for us whenever you bump into him!

VirtualVagabond · 10-03-2011, 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by PamlicoTraveler

Do some people really have equity in their houses?

Well, I thought I did.
House has been on the market for 6 months, and not a single offer. Great view, great presentation, but the market is in irons...

Still, it's damn nice to know that when it sells, our planned budget of around $25k pa will make us 'rich' cruisers... although I suspect it will be one of life's little conundrums that the reality will feel like we're just getting by.

**GordMay** · 10-03-2011, 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by VirtualVagabond

... I suspect it will be one of life's little conundrums that the reality will feel like we're just getting by.

It's all a mater of perspective.

To the majority of the world's population, you might be "rich".

But, in 1990, Donald Trump agreed to limit his monthly charitable contributions to $100,000, and stipulate that his household and personal expenses not exceed $450,000 a month for the rest of this year, $375,000 a month in 1991 and $300,000 a month in 1992.
The news story began:
“Donald Trump has agreed to put himself on a monthly budget certain to cramp his style ...”
➥ Business | Trump Allowance: $450,000 A Month | Seattle Times Newspaper

Fernao · 10-03-2011, 17:53

Hi Liesbet:

Welcome to the forum. I don't have a boat yet. I am planning. I can't decide if I want to buy or build one.

By the way, do you or your other half speak Jamaican Patois? The reason that I ask is because the name of your boat is a word in Patois.

Just curious,

Fernao

Fernao · 10-03-2011, 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by PamlicoTraveler

Do some people really have equity in their houses?

Hey Pamlico:

If I had my "drothers" I would sell my house in a New York minute and get a boat. However, I have as Fatty Goodlander would call them, 'dirt dwellers for a wife and kids', so I have to be patient.

Fernao

barnakiel · 10-03-2011, 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by VirtualVagabond

(...)

Her point was you don't have to be rich as most people perceive wealth, ie. millionaire types.

(...)

All your criticism taken in, truly!

With your permission, on the lighter vane: Be warned no matter how very 'not rich' you might be you will be treated as such as soon as you cruise into the West Indies and beyond. On a cab in Durban our driver said "oh, so you are the boat millionaires...". ;-)))

b.

Cormorant · 10-03-2011, 18:26

I'm impressed that you're able to work and make decent money from the boat. That to me seems like the key to the "not rich" cruising lifestyle. I.e., you don't need a six-figure sum sitting in investments throwing off monthly dividends . . . or a pension providing you with a monthly check . . . or even a savings account slowly being depleted. Most people aren't able to make $20,000 a year from their boats, but if you can, you have the ideal situation. More power to you!