Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 03-05-2015, 09:59   #16
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Yachting world does investigation keel failures

Quote:
Originally Posted by hasse_A View Post
I say Long Keel. I would not do transoceanic sailing in anything else. Way to often you hear about trouble with keels and rudders on fin keeled boats.
HA HA HA

I say any well designed and well built keel - but not a fin keel that got hit hard.

I would sail in anything from a Pogo to an Allegro. NOT a Pogo that was used for bottom survey. Much as Allegros could get away with such surveys to some extent!

b.
__________________

__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2015, 10:35   #17
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Kourou, French Guyana
Boat: Allegro 33
Posts: 245
Re: Yachting world does investigation keel failures

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
If you want to cruise oceans FAST, you do want a fine keel. NOT one that got hit against anything hard at any point though.
b.
A fresh example. 2 boats left Cap Verde together in the middle of December and had a very rough downwind passage to the Caribbean. One Bavaria 32 Cruiser (fin keeled) and our friends in their OE32 (long keeled) almost exactly the shape of the picture above. Both were 32 feet in length. Our friends in the long keeled OE32 arrived 5 days ahead of the Bavaria. They both had shorthanded crews (married couples). The OE32 was much more forgiving in the rough weather and needed much less attention and could much easier be run efficient. If the Bavaria would be handled by a racing crew, maybe it would have kept pace withe the OE32 but I doubt it. It is very tiresome keeping that boat at maximum speed in high seas and gale like conditions for weeks risking broaches all the time, something our friends didn't have to worry about.
__________________

__________________
hasse_A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2015, 13:28   #18
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Yachting world does investigation keel failures

The problem with Chiki was not that a long keel boat got somewhere before Chiki did. The problem is that Chiki did not make it.

Fin keel boats can be as good and better offshore boats as long keel boats. But some of them apparently cannot take hitting objects, or ground, with their keels.

Identify the bad apples, then steer off in your choices for offshore work. Or get them as they are, and accept the extra risk.

I would be as happy as anything crossing an ocean in any sound, well designed, well built fin keel boat.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2015, 13:45   #19
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,198
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: Yachting world does investigation keel failures

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepFrz View Post
I think they are answering the shareholder demands and the guy at the top who wants his bonus even more so.
More like answering the demands of 'Mud Folks' who want floating condiminiums with all the goodies they have at home.. shoot.. even know folk with jacuzzi's on their boats..
WTF.. to keep things affordable summats gotta give..
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-05-2015, 15:32   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Kourou, French Guyana
Boat: Allegro 33
Posts: 245
Re: Yachting world does investigation keel failures

An even fresher example. Our friends in the OE32 Missy I mentioned in an earlier post left the Caribbean bound for the Azores and were hit by a storm some 400 nm SW of the Azores. They were knocked down 8 times and did a number of rotations. By then they issued a distress call but after they calmed them self down and realized they and the boat were ok they canceled the need for assistance. They are now approaching the Canary Island and can be seen om MarineTraffic.
Long keel and single spreader masthead riggings are obviously very robust.
It's been written about this here on CF : 2015 Another bad year in the Azores..?
Go to post #111 and below.
__________________
hasse_A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-05-2015, 07:55   #21
Registered User
 
Polux's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Portugal/Med
Boat: Comet 41s
Posts: 5,757
Re: Yachting world does investigation keel failures

Quote:
Originally Posted by hasse_A View Post
A fresh example. 2 boats left Cap Verde together in the middle of December and had a very rough downwind passage to the Caribbean. One Bavaria 32 Cruiser (fin keeled) and our friends in their OE32 (long keeled) almost exactly the shape of the picture above. Both were 32 feet in length. Our friends in the long keeled OE32 arrived 5 days ahead of the Bavaria. They both had shorthanded crews (married couples). The OE32 was much more forgiving in the rough weather and needed much less attention and could much easier be run efficient. If the Bavaria would be handled by a racing crew, maybe it would have kept pace withe the OE32 but I doubt it. It is very tiresome keeping that boat at maximum speed in high seas and gale like conditions for weeks risking broaches all the time, something our friends didn't have to worry about.
For having meaningful speed results regarding comparing sailboats you need to have several of each type to be able to have statistically results. Probably in what concerns that comparison that only means that your friends are better sailors.

If small full keel boats were faster solo or with a duo crew, due to easiness or whatever, on an oceanic passage than there would be lots of them on the Transquadra, a transact solo race for amateurs with more than 40 years of age. Lot's of boats there (about 100 on each race) and I don't remember of a single full keel doing it.

Popular boats are boats even lighter than the Bavaria 42 and one that has won several times is the JPK 10.10, a fast cruiser racer:



Not as fragile as some want to make us believe: Here you have another cruiser racer that gets good results, a A31 colliding (on the Transquadra) with a whale at speed and not being damaged with it. I hope the whale got away also, just as scared as the guy on the boat

Polux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-05-2015, 08:54   #22
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Yachting world does investigation keel failures

Re OE32 boat we may just sit and wait. Better not make any far fetched projections.

If a boat gets rolled 'several times' then there is normally heaps of damage FIRST AND FOREMOST to the people in the boat.

Than again it it does not speak very highly of a design if you get rolled 360 many times in a row. Think of that pink girl: sailing the SO, how many 360 did she have?

And neither long keel nor topmast rig nor something makes a design safer or less safe. Mind OE32 were (many/mostly) hand picked and owner finished. If one owner went for a mast somewhat stronger than what we see everyday on a Lavaria then it speaks very well of common sense of this particular owner.

I think the credit is these sailors pressed the button then looked around, assessed the damage and their ability, and kept on going. A virtue, in my book.

b.
__________________

__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
keel, yacht

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sunset Lake / Miami Beach Police Ethics Investigation Complete canucksailor Cruising News & Events 93 08-03-2012 11:52
Marine Accident Investigation Branch (UK Govt) David_Old_Jersey Health, Safety & Related Gear 3 05-02-2007 16:30
Accident Investigation Seminar GordMay The Library 0 15-10-2005 02:36



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:28.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.