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Old 28-08-2012, 15:38   #31
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Re: Would You Ever Hide Your Ensign?

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I take the exact opposite approach, flying the smallest ensign I can get away with. Otherwise, it gets caught on the davits or the dinghi.

One should never judge patriotism by the size of the ensign. (Or its staff.)
I think stowing it could be a problem as well.....
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Old 28-08-2012, 16:01   #32
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Re: Would You Ever Hide Your Ensign?

^^ Inadequacy issues?

What about a sticker?
Dont have to worry about it catching and wrapping around shrouds
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Old 28-08-2012, 16:08   #33
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Re: Would You Ever Hide Your Ensign?

"A patriot is necessarily and invariably a lover of the people. But even this mark may sometimes deceive us.
The people is a very heterogeneous and confused mass of the wealthy and the poor, the wise and the foolish, the good and the bad. Before we confer on a man, who caresses the people, the title of patriot, we must examine to what part of the people he directs his notice. It is proverbially said, that he who dissembles his own character, may be known by that of his companions. If the candidate of patriotism endeavours to infuse right opinions into the higher ranks, and, by their influence, to regulate the lower; if he consorts chiefly with the wise, the temperate, the regular, and the virtuous, his love of the people may be rational and honest. But if his first or principal application be to the indigent, who are always inflammable; to the weak, who are naturally suspicious; to the ignorant, who are easily misled; and to the prfligate, who have no hope but from mischief and confusion; let his love of the people be no longer boasted. No man can reasonably be thought a lover of his country, for roasting an ox, or burning a boot, or attending the meeting at Mile-end, or registering his name in the lumber troop. He may, among the drunkards, be a hearty fellow, and, among sober handicraftmen, a free-spoken gentleman; but he must have some better distinction, before he is a patriot."

Samuel Johnson, The Patriot
The Samuel Johnson Sound Bite Page: Quotes on Patriotism
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Old 28-08-2012, 16:12   #34
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Nope. Colors don't hide.
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Old 30-08-2012, 10:08   #35
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Re: Would You Ever Hide Your Ensign?

Have furled my US flag in areas where the locals don't like foreign boats so much.

And, noticed many years ago, on approaches to Cuba that quite a few inbound ships were not flying their registry flag.
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Old 30-08-2012, 10:53   #36
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Re: Would You Ever Hide Your Ensign?

I was cruising during the Bush administration, right after attacking Iraq ... We cleared in properly, as required, with our quarantine and US flag flying, every time, but then took it down until the next clear in. It was BY far the safest thing to do... Tension was high!

Our experience was that because of recent events, (and I'm speaking "in general"), in the eyes of many countries populations and their officials, we were the most reviled country in the world. We were verbally abused and/or threatened physically on occasion, just for our nationality, and "at the time", I was not at all proud to be an American.

As a result of our humble and honest assessment of things back home, and having an apologetic attitude, we made good friends among cruisers from all over the world, that otherwise wouldn't have cared to. We remain friends to this day...

I'm not always proud of myself, OR my country, so next time, I will reflect how I feel at the moment, and weather I will strike our US ensign or not, will be based on events at the time.

To be ALWAYS proud of oneself or country, "regardless" of what you/they've done, is strictly for the irrationally egotistical, and indoctrinated.

My primary affiliation is best reflected when we fly our EARTH flag, anyway. It is the "only" one that includes us all.

Also... Sometimes one must do the "smart" thing, in other countries, as the best defense, is to NOT be offensive!

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Old 30-08-2012, 11:07   #37
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Re: Would You Ever Hide Your Ensign?

"... having an apologetic attitude, we made good friends among cruisers from all over the world, that otherwise wouldn't have cared to. We remain friends to this day..."

Sorry Mark, not to offend you but I wouldnt want to be "friends" with people I felt that I had to "apologize" to... just sayin
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Old 30-08-2012, 11:14   #38
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"... having an apologetic attitude, we made good friends among cruisers from all over the world, that otherwise wouldn't have cared to. We remain friends to this day..."

Sorry Mark, not to offend you but I wouldnt want to be "friends" with people I felt that I had to "apologize" to... just sayin
Personally, I love my country despite its flaws and realize that being able to admit to flaws in both myself and my country can go along ets towards getting along in the world.
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Old 30-08-2012, 11:22   #39
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Re: Would You Ever Hide Your Ensign?

Greenhand,
no doubt. Having lived in Europe during the 80's, 90's and 00's, I have seen both sides of the spectrum. I have seen my country despised by other countries. I give it little shrift. I have met friends from other countries that also admire deeply my nation. You can be proud and humble without groveling and apologizing.

How many of these so called "friends" apologize for the actions of their nations??? hmm yea right...
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Old 30-08-2012, 11:36   #40
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Re: Would You Ever Hide Your Ensign?

Why don't we discuss something that we can all agree on like guns. And anchors, I forgot all about anchors.
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Old 30-08-2012, 11:49   #41
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Re: Would You Ever Hide Your Ensign?

I have been thinking on this. My feelings are a bit mixed. When we travel and someone asks where we are from we always say "San Francisco".

With the exception of the occasional American with Conservative opinions it always garners a very positive response. It identifies us as US citizens, but also as Americans with a broader view of the world.

So in that sense I do avoid identifying myself as an American. But I do not think I would ever strike the colours for comfort or convenience. If a place seemed unsafe to be identified as from the USA I don't think I would view it as a safe place for me.

I suppose if some unforeseeable circumstances resulted in a need to take shelter in an inhospitable locale I would for safety's sake, but otherwise? I don't think I would.
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Old 30-08-2012, 12:17   #42
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Wink Re: Would You Ever Hide Your Ensign?

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When we travel and someone asks where we are from we always say "San Francisco".

With the exception of the occasional American with Conservative opinions it always garners a very positive response. It identifies us as US citizens, but also as Americans with a broader view of the world.
We do about the same, except that we say "Texas." And we are possibly identified differently than Sara

However, the recent headline about the Lubbock county commissioner who wanted a budget increase for defense against United Nations troops after President Obama is reelected gave me significant pause, and I considered striking the Lone Star and replacing it with the baby blue UN ensign. Especially since my family roots are quite near Lubbock.

But in our 5 years in the NW Caribbean, Bahamas, Caribbean, US East Coast and Texas, we have never struck our Texas (or USA) ensigns except for windy conditions. In and around Cape Cod I tried to pull out the very large Texas flag, but my bride and admiral, a yankee by birth, put a stop to it.
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Old 31-08-2012, 01:33   #43
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Re: Would You Ever Hide Your Ensign?

WOW! So I should say I am from Brisbane and just assume that everyone "knows" my nationality?

Many world citizens would see that attitude as a wild assumption on your part as to their own geographical knowledge.

And now comes the reverse killer....

Many, but not all, South Americans, take quiet offense to people from the USA who declare themselves as "Americans". Other South Americans will laugh it off as a beautiful example of geographical ignorance and a certain arrogance, but they themselves know their geography and the names of the countries in their area of the world. (They do not expect you to know the names of the states and major cities in their own countries when you don't even know the correct name of your section of a double continent.)

They will sometimes call you Norteamericano, which they know very well lumps you in with your northern neighbours and strictly speaking includes Mexico. And often they will call you Estadounidense, which translates to UnitedStatesCitizen.

You assume foreigners know where your city is, but the incorrect identification of your own nationality staggers your southern neighbours and would fail a primary school geography exam.

Food for thought?
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Old 31-08-2012, 02:02   #44
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Re: Would You Ever Hide Your Ensign?

My boat flies a Danish ensign. I have never thought about striking it. However in view of all the turmoil around the world since the Mohammed drawings were published (quite a few years ago now), I would think long and hard about it, if I were arriving in a muslim country.

Generally, people around the world are NOT going to shoot, or otherwise molest you because you come from a certain country. Most people are quite able to disconnect your country's actions from you personally.

Unfortunately, there are extremists who are not able to do that. Those are the ones you have to watch out for.
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Old 31-08-2012, 04:16   #45
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Many, but not all, South Americans, take quiet offense to people from the USA who declare themselves as "Americans". ...
On the extremely rare occasion that this comes up, I point out that none of the other terms are any more precise, as a number of other countries, such as Mexico, also have "estados unidos de" in their official names.

I find it much more common for people to take one look at me and say "ah, tu eres americano."
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