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CarlF · 01-02-2011, 09:10

I've read through this post and I can't be sure of your answer to a really important question:

Will you enjoy spending a lot of time working on this boat?

I love working on my boat. If I didn't, I'd pay someone else to do it (or at least value my time at something more than zero dollars an hour). If I had to include this labor cost, it would cost way too much to own my boat.

So can you answer YES to the above question and would you also agree with the following?

1. It would be fun to learn how to work with steel. I'd love to learn to use a welder for simple stuff.

2. How does galvanic corrosion really work? I'll read all of Nigel Calder's books.

3. Rewiring would be fun because I could label all the wires and make a nifty wiring diagram on my computer - or Ipad - (would someone please make an Ipad app for boat wiring!).

4. I bet there's a frayed wire somewhere in the bilge causing galvanic corrosion - I'll smile for a week after I find it.

4. Sanding and putting six coats of varnish on the interior woodwork can be put off for a while but I will enjoy this when its turn comes around.

In all honesty, I can answer "Yes" to all of these. My wife thinks I am a sick man but this keeps me out of other forms of trouble that worries her more.

If you can also answer "Yes", buy this boat. It doesn't look like a "project boat" in the pictures (e.g. pretty good shape) but it's likely to have many unique challenges. If you don't think this would be fun or you don't have time, it will cost you a lot less in the long run to get a newer boat with fewer unusual maintenance requirements.

Carl

zeehag · 01-02-2011, 09:12

canvas helps heat stay less, yes insulate.. what they sed-- offer half asking yes.. go for it-- you will have yourself a helluvaboat. everything is fixable and only some things are necessary for floating her... the rest is doable as you go--is a bit of a trick living in a boat you are refitting..i know-- done that for 2 1/2 yrs--since i bought this..but, remember i did take a yr off for bad behavior-- went sailing in gulf of mexico ..lol.... so ye can always run away from home to sail..isnt a big deal......
do learn to weld.... would be fun......you can do boat and help folks with their welding needs....

Dustymc · 01-02-2011, 09:15

I too looked at that boat. Having just bought a sailable project, and looked at many more projects in various stages of decomposition, here's my advice. Take it for what it is.

Someone said "unless you live next to the yard." Amen. If you're going to buy a project you probably need/want to work on it, and that's hard to do when it's not accessible. I'm an hour from my boat, and that's sometimes too much. (Driving down to meet upholstery guy this PM, and dreading it.) Unless you're rich (in which case you have funny taste in boats), walk away if you can't get you to the boat or vice-versa.

Show up with a sledgehammer, and the broker is likely to not answer the door. Maybe it's because of where I am, but brokers were almost universally opposed to me doing much more than opening cabinets. I think that's related to these sorts of boats, which have been sitting for a while and have probably had dozens of tire-kickers halfheartedly looking at them. Tapping on the hull with a screwdriver handle will tell you just as much.

"Running in May" may mean "2005," or "we once tried to spin it over," or anything else. Believe NOTHING you read. NOTHING. Especially from surveyors - those come in idiot flavor too, but you WANT to trust them, having just written a check.

As has been said, assume you'll need to replace EVERYTHING. For example, my sink drain pipe let go. It had been meticulously whittled of obscure PVC fittings and 5200, custom made in Taiwan for that boat. Took me about a friggin week to find something that would both fit and let the water out. Even minuscule projects can take a lot of time.

Boat experience means little. If you're mechanically adept at all you'll have an easy time actually doing stuff. Figuring out precisely what to do is the hard part, and the internet (particularly this site) is a wonderful tool for that.

I had a couple boats bought out from under me too. If this one REALLY does something for you, and you have the resources to get it where you want it, just buy it. That said, the boat's been sitting for years and you'll always be "third person to look at it this week" or "just in front of the guy coming back this afternoon to put in an offer." It's mostly ********, but occasionally a boat inconveniently disappears. (I saw one of those in someone's avatar here the other day - it's good to see a boat you might have loved getting some attention!)

As far as that particular boat, we decided we couldn't live with the interior layout. For whatever reason, it just wasn't our thing.

S/V Alchemy · 01-02-2011, 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adax

I can pay professionals to a degree, if they save me rent on land, if they can speed up the restoration process so that she can go back in water.

It is customary to a) request to have a survey performed, and b) to request a sea trial.

The seller can in turn request that the potential buyer issue a refundable deposit of 10%-20%, and that the seller cover the cost of putting the stick in. Originally, the ad portrayed not a dead guy's estate, but a "motivated seller" seemingly interested in helping out.

If this boat can't currently float, run away. Far away.

If it can be launched and motored, do so. Be prepared to pay for the launch (if survey reveals no major structural issues). If you want to see if she's a pig under sail, you have to invest the day or so and the crane cost (maybe) to get the stick up, to bend sails on and to take her out in a nice 15 knotter (a steel boat won't generally sail well enough to show her characteristics in under 10 knots.

The pitch to the seller is this: I am serious, and I like the boat, but it must be capable of moving under sail and power. Otherwise, how do I know? I am willing to front the cost, and, if at the end of this, I decline to go further, you can have the survey copy and you have a tuned rig ready for the next potential customer.

I am assuming, of course, that the rig is out and hasn't been baking in the sun for eight years, a bad thing in my opinion to be revealed the second you haul on a halyard.

I consider a survey and sea trial essential, and your willingness to pay for those items a differentiator between you and a browsing window shopper.

Adax · 01-02-2011, 09:46

FUN Questions -thanks Carl

1. It would be fun to learn how to work with steel. I'd love to learn to use a welder for simple stuff. YES in addition grew up with 2 generationso f welders. Always mesmerised by the sparks

2. How does galvanic corrosion really work? I'll read all of Nigel Calder's books. YES Boring but necessary.done a lot of that reading and subsequent digestion in my career.

3. Rewiring would be fun because I could label all the wires and make a nifty wiring diagram on my computer - or Ipad - (would someone please make an Ipad app for boat wiring!). YES but would not keep on PC unless I had to ,but laminate a card with it handdrawn most like as I don't like designing on PC .

4. I bet there's a frayed wire somewhere in the bilge causing galvanic corrosion - I'll smile for a week after I find it. YES, love puzzles . My Belbin team profile (management speak) is plant. Stays silent for hours then throws out something completely unexpected and out of the box but makes sense .

4. Sanding and putting six coats of varnish on the interior woodwork can be put off for a while but I will enjoy this when its turn comes around.

YES , but as there is loads of work to do if I come across a product that does it now and in three I won't be proud. The next time around I will know if it works and if not do it the oldfashioned way.

Absolutely unrelated but when needs "musted" I taught myself to make concrete,tile,wallpaper ,have impermeabilised house roof in 30 degree heat on top of concrete roof too late for the season as last builder did terrible job . I will not like all jobs and might just say I don't like fiddling with this . But not rich so if the fiddling gets expensive I get interested in how it is done.

Zee,thank you I think this is doable and how finished the boat needs to be is in the end my decision as it is me who lives there .

Dusty thanks for sharing your thoughts on this boat . They echo mine in but in more detail . And thanks for teh encouragement that with handiness and willingness and time it is doable.

On second thoughts I withdraw my question about money and time . I still have until Feb end to plan out this boat and that is just what I will do.
Gonna do my homework folks.

Thank you all for dedicating of your time to this thread

This is not only for the people who said it was a go but those of you who have said to go with a dinghy were important to me too, to see if you could sway me. This boat IF bought will need a vital ingredient which is obstinacy and a literal attitude of " this square peg in a round hole will go", as I will come across things that are now not made, made different or could be improved upon with what is available now.

Brent Swain · 01-02-2011, 11:47

A 100 amp alternator from the auto wreckers, driven off the main engine by a 9 inch pulley is all the welder you will need. Cost, about $35.
I don't think the hour or two a year I do on my 26 year old steel 31 footer constitutes "Constant maintenance."
That is a myth.
As long as your paint is thick enough, on clean steel, your maintenance should be minimal. If not, your paint is not thick enough, or on clean enough steel. .

**hummingway** · 01-02-2011, 12:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent Swain

A 100 amp alternator from the auto wreckers, driven off the main engine by a 9 inch pulley is all the welder you will need. Cost, about $35.
I don't think the hour or two a year I do on my 26 year old steel 31 footer constitutes "Constant maintenance."
That is a myth.
As long as your paint is thick enough, on clean steel, your maintenance should be minimal. If not, your paint is not thick enough, or on clean enough steel. .

With a used steel boat would this mean grinding the surface down to bright metal before painting, if it's been sitting as this one has?

HappySeagull · 01-02-2011, 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adax

happy seagull , I agree on the excellent posts bit and it being a gamble,not on the boat that needs no restoration. My budget will always need a boat in restoration as I will need a liveaboard as well. If you will my question at the end is an attempt at lowering the odds of that gamble. I am not asking anybody to look up costs of winches or spare parts availability just a ball park figure and time estimate .

Exactly so.fixup never ends.Restoration is different.I fear for you cooped inside an uninsulated steel boat in a mexican summer for sixmonths or more,going broke.

**atoll** · 01-02-2011, 12:36

with respect to all the posters,this vessel was built proffesionally,then treated with a zinc bath or thermally sprayed with zinc,then painted with epoxy.

find it hard to belive that there is any way near the maintanace issues of sand blasted epoxy coated steel boats.

the worst thing you could do to a zinc coated vessel are grind it.

if their are issues with the hull it will be where repairs have been made,damaging the zinc coating.......

**hummingway** · 01-02-2011, 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by atoll

with respect to all the posters,this vessel was built proffesionally,then treated with a zinc bath or thermally sprayed with zinc,then painted with epoxy.

find it hard to belive that there is any way near the maintanace issues of sand blasted epoxy coated steel boats.

the worst thing you could do to a zinc coated vessel are grind it.

if their are issues with the hull it will be where repairs have been made,damaging the zinc coating.......

So treat it just like plastic? Just sand off the bottom paint and redo it when required?

**atoll** · 01-02-2011, 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by hummingway

So treat it just like plastic? Just sand off the bottom paint and redo it when required?

would treat it more like a ply-wood vaneer on the un rusted parts,ie dont cut through to the bare metal, same on a plastic boat bottom that has been epoxy coated against osmosis.

steel that has become damaged by impact or subsequent work on the hull,post zinc treatment,this you would grind,needle gun,sand blast back to bright metal,then etch prime and treat with epoxy paint,as one would on a conventional steel boat...

perchance · 01-02-2011, 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adax

happy seagull , I agree on the excellent posts bit and it being a gamble,not on the boat that needs no restoration. My budget will always need a boat in restoration as I will need a liveaboard as well. If you will my question at the end is an attempt at lowering the odds of that gamble. I am not asking anybody to look up costs of winches or spare parts availability just a ball park figure and time estimate .

Time estimates are pretty much useless since everything you do on a boat seems to take 4 time longer than your best estimate. As far as replacing gear goes, good used is cheaper than brand new/ latest and greatest with the exception of electronics. Used sails in good to excellent condition can be had for much less than new. If you are patient and shop around you will be amazed at what you can save.

SabreKai · 01-02-2011, 16:32

I would tend to stay away from the grinder. If you are trying to remove rust from a surface, the grinder will remove a lot of material before it cuts down enough so that all the rust is gone, leaving a thin dish shaped patch. Far better to get a small sand blaster and do that. For small area repairs, something like this:

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/cvfsupplyco-store_2106_13475076

With a small compressor you can do it in small patches and coat with epoxy as soon as you are done. There are other hand blasters around, I got mine from Princess Auto in Toronto. Use blasting compound, and keep the areas small, you will do ok.

I haven't tried a needler yet, I gather they are awesome to watch, deafening to use and they literally beat the metal until the rust is gone. Somehow I think doing that on 1/8 inch plate may not be such a good thing.

There is also chemical etching, using an acid solution but I've not tried that.

Sabre

**Boracay** · 01-02-2011, 19:46

It's taken me about 3 1/2 years so far to fit out Boracay. That's starting from a bare hull (no interior- see blog) with mast, sails, winches and steering. I put in a new engine/gearbox/exhaust.

The PO started the boat, then took his wife out in some of the more interesting weather that we have off the east coast of Oz here. That was the end of his dream, and why we only go out in good weather.

My point is that this could be a 2+ year project. Just how complete you want your boat to be determines the time, but if you have less than two years then a "cream puff", even if smaller, should be a better bet.

So if you want to put 2+ years of sweat equity into a boat before having any fun then...

I brought a welder a year ago. Used it to weld some stainless steel stanchions back on. Then one of the friendly marina "helpers" helped break another getting the boat from the wharf. Can't get back into the wharf to do more. Initially I'd go with a professional for essential work. Zinc (from zinc plated steel) fumes are toxic.

A good drill (I'm on my third el-cheapo) , 5/32" (for pilot holes), 3/16" and 8mm bits together with a selection of stainless and galvanized bolts and machine screws will attach most things to a steel boat.