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Old 31-01-2011, 09:59   #46
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Looking, but I explained to the broker, that I need answers as I need to decide in which location the most boats are located for me to see at once. They have offices on the other side in Sonora, but less interesting (to me) boats . When I get back I will look at other brokers too.
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Old 31-01-2011, 15:14   #47
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Add a notebook and pencil, and tape measure to your kit when you go. Photos are nice but its even nicer if you can look at one and know exactly the size of that Vberth or the settee or how much head room is in the head.

I have been looking at that boat on and off for about 5 months now. If it wasn't for the fact I'd take a $20K beating or worse trying to sell off Sabre Dance I'd seriously go down there for the up close and personal. Steel boats rule as far as I'm concerned.

IF you do go, post some updated photos on the forum so we can all have a better look.

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Old 31-01-2011, 16:17   #48
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Not sure if it was already mentioned, but bring a small mirror with you as well. It is a lot easier to direct a mirror than it is to climb in some of the confined spaces.
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Old 31-01-2011, 17:02   #49
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Looks good . How old is she? Time in a super dry desert climate like La Paz takes nothing out of the life of a steel boat. It can be like suspended animation. Get her well epoxied, inside and out, while to you are still in a desert climate.
Rigging wire doesn't deteriorate much unless it is moving. One trip from France to La Paz, then sitting on the hard for years, wont end the life expectancy of rigging as if she were sailing all that time.
What's all this concern about letting a marina, or insurance company dictate that you should go to sea in something weaker, flimsier, and less safe than a steel boat. The idea is to go to sea, not to live under the dictates of a marina operator ,or a corporate bureaucrat.
Stay out of marinas, and avoid getting stuck in one . As Slocum said "Harbours rot men and ships.'
I'd check to see how well that skeg is attached to the hull. Skeg failures are all too common on high aspect skegs like that one. One very popular designer said he designs his skegs to fall off if they hit anything. I recently replaced an incredibly flimsey skeg on a very polular French design.It was simply welded to 10 gauge bottom plating, with minimal reinforcing.
Don' t spend a lot on major changes until you have lived with what's there for a while . Priorities shift a lot in the first year or two.
With enough epoxy on clean steel , the maintenance on my 26 year old 31 ft steel sloop is an hour or two a year, less that a well worked fibreglass boat .Welded down deck hardware never leaks, nor works loose.
Make sure there is enough paint on the inside, That is where people tend to skimp.
The boat looks tough, simple and functional; very practical.
You can test the hull thickness with a sledge hammer and a centre punch. Just give her e few good whacks in the lower, inaccessible parts of the hull and keel , from the outside. If it doesn't dent ,there is plenty of metal there.
I haven't been too impressed with a Dutch surveyor in Vancouver who claims to be a steel boat expert.
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Old 31-01-2011, 17:47   #50
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I would recommend this outfit. From hanging around La Paz I know Shelly and Mike. They are hard workers. I think they know the boats well.
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Old 31-01-2011, 17:50   #51
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Well,they were quick :Apparently she has been out of the water for 8 years,metal thickness good. Entire boat is project boat will need painting loads of work but structurally sound? I asked about ongoing maintenace and had no direct answer. I will give them a call tomorrow for extra info as teh equipment might just be boxes with recognisable names on them . And still she fascinates me ...
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Old 31-01-2011, 17:53   #52
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Brent Swain ,priceless info. I thought that there must be a way to least partially assess the state of hull there . I need a vaca anyway I decided today so I will head up there.
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Old 31-01-2011, 17:57   #53
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Adax, from the views of the forum looks like you need to take a road trip

Suggest you take:

A. A camera, because you will forget stuff in the excitement.

B. Binos, to inspect the top of the mast.

C. Small powerfull torch to go with item D.

D. Mirror on a stick to see in all the nooks and crannies.

Let us know how you get on

Pete
Good advice, but you want a remote shutter tripwire for your camera AND a mirror. That way, you can put the camera on the stick as well and take a flash shot or eight of the bowels of the thing. Shots like that persuaded me to not buy a 1980 Subrero Petit-Prince 40 about six years ago...it was a rusty mess beneath the sole.
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Old 31-01-2011, 17:59   #54
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Add a notebook and pencil, and tape measure to your kit when you go. Photos are nice but its even nicer if you can look at one and know exactly the size of that Vberth or the settee or how much head room is in the head.

I have been looking at that boat on and off for about 5 months now. If it wasn't for the fact I'd take a $20K beating or worse trying to sell off Sabre Dance I'd seriously go down there for the up close and personal. Steel boats rule as far as I'm concerned.

IF you do go, post some updated photos on the forum so we can all have a better look.

Sabre
I thought of you, actually, when I saw that boat. I thought: That's the boat that guy really wanted, but it didn't live in Toronto.
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Old 31-01-2011, 18:01   #55
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Sabre. I knew that if i mentioned her somebody would see her as a candidate too.I have been watching her for just as long. Yes wil take up to date pics. The broker did not say but I think the pictures are not too old except the one in the water.

But you know what i am kind of chuffed about ? At least two people with way more experience than me have watched that one so my assessment of boats does not seem too blueeyed . I think.

The Cal is already promised to someone else but that is ok .It is a boat I thought I should be interested in but no heart rate increase.
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Old 31-01-2011, 18:14   #56
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Daddle ,I don't know Mike but from the mail he sent me he is a straight up guy :He is selling. I am maybe buying. but I have the feeling that they will not sell me a pup or that if this boat does not come my way they can find me another good one.

Ozskipper, great info. Re the engine I am a complete noob but I have always preferred engines in cars that were cast iron and had no fairy lights attached ( ex proud owner of a Rover 2000 TC shark ), so if it needs an overhaul Mexico is the place. If it cannot be had, go inland show it to someone and say make this ! and lo and behold they do . Happened to me twice with cars where I panicked and the mechanic told me let me ring a friend .He could not understand why he got a tip of imported german beers after (Soccer World cup time so my affiliation to the German team was always laughed about ) It was not just teh part, but the mentality change that came with it. It can't be that much different with boat engines ( ducks and runs away )
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Old 31-01-2011, 18:15   #57
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I think there is a reasonable possibility that this is a decent boat, based on the very little we can see.

But there is also a strong possibility it is a nightmare. Getting it surveyed is your "ante up" to play this game.

Somewhere in the middle is the idea that it's flawed, but fixable. Most everything electronic is possibly toast, and the batteries are gone, and who knows if the engine will even crank.

One man's deal breaker is another's opportunity to shave price. I know that if it's structurally sound and you buy it, it's two to three years of further expense and hundreds of hours of labour to make it right and safe.

However, at a certain point, you have to think: "well, if I completely rebuild all the systems, pay for a little carpentry and can keep the engine for five thousand more hours, I can cruise a 40 footer that will cost me sixty grand and which I know stem to stern like few other boat owners."

Sixty grand will seem cheap beyond belief if you can go that route. A 40 footer in F/G new is $250,000...and a used old C&C is $100,000 and to build from scratch is probably more than new, so sixty ($20K to buy and $40K to rehab) is not at all crazy.

I highly doubt it's currently in "sailaway" condition, or perhaps even watertight enough to be towed, so there's that to consider, unless you live next to the yard.
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Old 31-01-2011, 18:26   #58
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Simon V - very encouraging to hear that single chinesa are easy drive..Gives me hope also the manageability of maintenance.

RTB thank you for the heads up about marinas and insurance . I will stay away from them for learning purposes but might have to consider at least liability insurance if I wnat to be a recurring visitor.Will play that by ear .

Bluewater - excellent advice about timeline .I have a starting point now from the broker .

Boden - really good to hear from someone who is happy with their steel lady .

Zee ,thanks for teh welcome with open arms.

Prerequisite -agreed that there will be other things affected rubber seals electronics what not but I feel they are out in teh open while coorosion is hidden and i might miss it if I cannot find a surveyor or get clever beyond my up to now non sailing years . that is what spooks me about thelady.

Boatman- sage advice as ever -will do .
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Old 31-01-2011, 18:53   #59
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Comment on the engine...from the ad - The Perkins diesel was just running back in May and looks to be in very good shape.

I guess they had it running on the hard?
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Old 31-01-2011, 18:59   #60
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You arent going to be able to tell much about the engine on the hard because you can't run it against a load. How fast it starts when absolutely cold will give you some indication of the compression. As long as the fuel system hasn't been tinkered with, the engine should start within a few revolutions if the compression is good. Beware or wait a day to try it if the engine has been started just before you get there. Carefully touch the exhaust to see if it's warm. BTW, shouldn't hurt the engine to start it and run for a couple of minutes without water. The only thing you can hurt is impellor and you should replace that no matter what.

The windlass is not a Goiot but a Simpson Lawrence 555. These are good winches if they work. They have a chain drive that has caused problems and a tendency to freeze up due to dissimilar metal corrosion. Be sure to drop the hook and crank it back up to be sure that it is functioning. Don't know it there is any support from Lewmar for these winches. Seem to remember the chain in the drive system was some basturd size only available from Simpson Lawrence/Lewmar.
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