Would You Critique a Boat I Am Looking at, Please ?

[iciela]

ADAX,welcome to the dream!...it sounds like this boat is haunting you like a woman does,so don't worry too much and go for it...i was once a liveaboard and sailaway on a 35 ft alloy that needed work...if you have the passion,the work is no major-you'll still swear a bit though...
In my experience,the survey is only a piece of paper for the insurance !!!...i've had 4 boats professionally surveyed and these were complete waste of time and money !!!...but they will write on an official report that one of the cushion has a small rip in the fabric and that the bilge needs a clean !!!...( in their expert opinion !)...the surveyor couldn't see that one side of the keel had been completely opened up to remove the lead inside the alloy( because the lead was eating it !!!...)small stuff !
if you're in love,go for it but don't expect this old wife to be perfect !!!...

[Adax]

Yup, insulation seems to be a topic all of its own .Just superficially stuck my nose in and saw a suggestion from a guy that seemd to make sense .
Cutting molding closed cell foam still leaves too much space between foam and hull to avoid condensation but you don't want spray in foam for inspectability so his solution was to create plastics bags of expandable spray foam and trap them behind the interior wood pressing them against the hull so avoiding air pockets ,spraying on the foam and having the foam go soggy with abrasion . I will read more and make it a separate issue once I get to that stage .

Iciela thanks for the thumbs up ! I am not expecting this ole husband to be perfect :We know... , but I believe that is material for another current thread
Re surveyors I think I will have trouble finding one ,probably the reason why it has not sold . But I will see . It might be $ 500 well spent if it stops me from kicking myself later telling myself in a survey THAT would have come out ,even if it woudl not have. I will see.

[rover88]

Normally I wouldn't touch this one, but I'm going out on a limb here are will tell you to smile, then run away. Fast.

For $30k you have a lot of choices in this market and the elephant you are looking at may step on your ass and crush it.

Steel boats are great - if you know them, how to maintain them and are diligent. And ONLY if the boat is sound and free of corrosion. Good fiberglass boats are just as good. (yeah, I'd rather round the Cape in a steel boat, but...) and much easier to maintain.

I don't know that you could find a reputable Surveyor in Mexico and you'd be a fool to buy this boat without a comprehensive survey by someone who knows steel.

You are not going to learn to handle a 40' cutter rigged boat in a day. Or a week or a month. Think Sloop.

Maintanance costs are going to eat the new owner of this boat alive.

Do you really need 40'? I think many will agree that 35' is the max for a couple to handle. Remember the cost increases expodentally for every foot of boat. Higher slip fees, maintenance costs, insurance, etc.

Look for a 30 - 35 footer in the $30k range. Offer far less and hold the rest of the cash back for repairs and upgrades.

As far a learning, start reading now. Lots. Buy a boat and make friends at the marina. There are many willing sailors to teach you and much you'll figure out on your own.

[atoll]

hot dipped galvanized or hot sprayed and epoxy coated ;hull should be in mint condition,except where damage or work subsequent to galvanizing.

perkins 4108 engine pretty indestructable and cheap easy to find parts,though may have issues with heat exchangers due to corrosion.

rigging,would need to rerig,and new halyards,$1000 dollars for wire and stalocks would double that at least.

probably need to replace most of the wiring and batteries.

otherwise they sail very well friend had one.

best survey if you can find a yachty with a steel boat,long term will give you a very good idea of what you are buying

if the boat was built proffesionally in france it will have insulation at least to the water line,polystyrene panels or sprayed polyeurathane
would offer half asking price

[S/V Alchemy]

I wrote a long reply, but it was nuked, so fark it. Plenty of good advice here already.

I am fitting out a steel boat. You may benefit from reading my blog about it: alchemy2009.blogspot.com Feel free to ask specific questions and I will do my best to answer.

The first thing to do is to get aboard, and bring at your expense a steel yacht surveyor. Everything else flows from that, because this is a boat you are either going to find outdated (chuck most of it and start again) or outdated and structurally shot (avoid like the plague).

Good luck.

[Bash]

I'm voting no, but take that with a grain of salt because I don't like steel boats.

I'm not voting no because of the steel, however, or even because of the hard chines, or even that scary dodger frame. I'm voting no because I don't think the designer/builder gave much thought to ventilation. (Admittedly, it's hard to tell from these photos, but that says something in itself.)

People will tell you that you can make up for poor ventilation with a wind scoop, but I'm telling you that if you need a wind scoop you've got a poorly ventilated boat.

[witzgall]

How in the hell do you use an "Inside Wheel" to steer from, in the AFT CABIN????

Chris

[zeehag]

Originally Posted by witzgall

How in the hell do you use an "Inside Wheel" to steer from, in the AFT CABIN????

Chris

MEBBE was so former partner would think think he was steering......

[Adax]

Atoll,thanks for the vote of confidence n the original hull treatment.Ity seemed a thorough job.Hope it is mint.
Rover,not looking for a 40 footer or a steel boat ,just this one .If this one is no good I will look at everything above 27 ft.

Alchemy I will go up there first to hava look . If I get as excited about it as I am now then finding a surveyor may well be on the cards.

Bash Ia m hoping the ventilation issue will or will not be relevant once I see it. I agree with you on the lackof pictures. I never showed my second bathroom in the advertising just said it needed upgrading...

Witzgall ,that is what it says in the bumph "She has an aft cabin with an inside helm and a bubble hatch to see the sail trim with " For lack of pictures I am imagining a Jetsons type spaceship bubble top affair ..

[bljones]

That dome was probably easy to see through... in 1978. Even then, it probably made the aft cabin hot as Hades.

[callmecrazy]

It's not unheard of to have manual steerage below decks, particularly in boats that are designed for higher latitudes. It's probably not meant for tropical cruising, hence the lack of ventilation. but, it's steel... you can cut holes in it, and weld stuff to it however you wish.

Sounds like you have the right idea Adax. go see it in person... I've never met a boat that looked as good in person as it did on paper. I'd suggest going ahead with seeing any other boat you can too, even if this boat appears to be perfect, just see it, see something else, see something else, then re-evaluate everything, then see something else

If you still come back to this one, then go hire a surveyor and start worrying about the particulars...

[Adax]

Bljones thanks .I imagined something a bit bigger so did not make the connection. Looks like material for a bad hairday ... but it does say hatch so I am hoping it helps with ventilation.
I have domes of that type on my roof and they have been leaky. Hmm, if it needs replacing those are the annoying things sent to try us.

Callmecrazy,sounds like a plan . That is what I will do.

[blgklr]

I have nothing against steel boats but if you cannot find competent, certified surveyer of steel boats I would not bother to look at it. The designer has a good rep. A 40 foot boat will cost probably twice what it costs to maintain and operate a 30 foot one. If you have have $20,000 for a boat and $10,000 for fit out you should have many boats to choose from. I would pick a simple sloop rig, easiest to sail and maintain.

[roverhi]

You steer the same way as you would with a wheel in the main cabin. This is a common affectation, inside steering under a bubble, to French Boats. Popularized by Bernard Moitessier on Joshua. Get Moitesier's Cape Horn to read about sailing a steel boat from France to Tahiti and return via Cape Horn. A most excellent book.

With experience, you'll want to change a ton of stuff on this boat but wait untli you have had a bit of experience with the boat and looked at a lot of other people's solution to similar problems. The electronics are probably too old to be much good. That's not that big a deal as you really only need a couple of hand held GPS recievers and a depth sounder along with appropriate paper charts to sail anywhere in the world or around it. The bells and whistles can ome way later and only if you are suddenly flush.

The boat, as equipped, seems pretty much ready to go anywhere. After all, the equipment got it from France to Baja. As an example, it's already got a self steering vane. You can get by with just the vane, but it's also got a wheel pilot for use under power. Another boat unit saved. Comes with a windlass with all chain rode and an anchor suitable for the displacement. That would take several boat units to add to another boat without them. Canvas seems to be non existant but you can probably get what you need made up in Mexico as reasonably as possible. Just make sure they use UV resistant thread. The dodger frame looks hell for stout which is a big plus. Hell it's even got refrigeration though I wouldn't count on it working after sitting for so long.

Don't know how old the pictures are but they look very good for a steel boat. Steel boats that have been neglected usually show rust stains everywhere. Didn't see any in the photos. Looks like paint would only be needed for cosmetic reasons, initially.

Insulation on a steel boat is a necessity in cold weather. In warm weather it's not that big a thing as long as the boat is painted a light color. Way more important, a steel boat is dry. Water dripping onto the only approprate berth from the hull to deck joint on an FRP boat is a great way to ruin you day, btdt. A well built and maintained steel boat should be bone dry below with the possiblilty of the prop shaft packing gland. Deck awnings and a windscoop will make any boat livable at anchor in the tropics.

In any case, the survey will be the crucial thing. If the hull is sound, I'd seriously consider buying it if I didn't already have too much money in my current hole in the water. I don't think you'll find a boat within $20,000 of the asking price that is as well equipped for cruising with the room of this boat.

[RTB]

Be Sure:

* On steel boats and boats OVER 30 years old - MAKE SURE YOU HAVE AN INSURANCE SOURCE BEFORE YOU BUY THE BOAT.

* On steel boats make sure the marina you plan to use allows steel boats.
Not allowed at my current marina (1100 boats), so just a heads up.