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View Poll Results: Would you allow this...???
Yes 114 95.00%
No 6 5.00%
Voters: 120. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 28-01-2008, 09:58   #1
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Would You Allow this . . . ?

I would hope everyone using cruisersforum.com is man (or woman) enough to form their own view on what it takes to safely cruise at sea, irrespective of the varying degrees of legislation across the planet.

On that presumption and
based on the recognised cruising event below with pre-stated entry criteria, it would be quite interesting to know 'which way the needle would swing' if cruisersforum.com members had a say in the matter. So...

'Would you allow this...???'

A lot of you will already be aware of the transatlantic 'competitive cruise' known as the Jester challenge,
http://www.jesterinfo.org/. Basic arrangements are:
  • sailing vessels between 20 and 30 feet (including multi-hulls)
  • entries and cancellations accepted up to the day before the start
  • age of skipper over 18 at the start
  • no entrance fees
  • no inspections
  • no time limit
  • no regulations: skippers will be entirely responsible for the equipment they take based on their own experience
"self-reliability at sea with skippers accepting full responsibility for every aspect of their vessel, voyage and conduct"


So, without being shy and hiding behind 'the cloak of legislation', if you were given the final say on whether this should take place as per the current conditions of entry, 'Would you allow this...???'


A simple two option Yes / No
to gauge opinion, but it's always very interesting to read the thoughts behind it!
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Old 28-01-2008, 10:20   #2
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After reading the Bios and history on their web site it became obvious that this challenge was developed by very accomplished and experienced sailers. A special challenge for very special people.
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Old 28-01-2008, 10:36   #3
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Absolutely Yes! …..I have too much respect for some of those old sea dogs to tell them they are absolutely F#*&ing crazy! Then again, so am I.
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Old 28-01-2008, 11:05   #4
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I don't think that any government should have the right to stop any individual from going to sea in whatever craft that individual chooses.

However, as extremely expensive rescues become more common and publicity increases, the tax paying public is becoming more and more outraged that they have to endure the expense of these, perceived, reckless ventures. There-in lies the problem.

It is also putting a toll on private shipping companies. Any commercial ship that plays part in a sea rescue pays for that dearly. The mere fact that a container ship might be delayed a day or two from arriving at it's next port could cost the shipping company $100K or more. If a crew member is injured during a rescue (which is common), it is the responsibility of the rescuing ship's captain.

I would suspect that many a ship may ignore distress signals from small craft far at sea for that very reason. We may see that as a horrible act. However, the decision to participate in a sea rescue is a very serious one to a ships captain. Many ship's captains see small sailboat navigation on the open ocean as being a careless disregard for the sea.
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Old 28-01-2008, 11:18   #5
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I say yes.

I'm missing something in the question.

Something in the rules perhaps?

As far as I'm concerned the is never anyone to rely on at sea. The skipper has the sole responsibility when the boat pulls away from the dock and even before that.



If I was ready I'd be there.
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Old 28-01-2008, 11:33   #6
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If it is an organised race, do they not have to meet some Race rules. Like RORC(only one I could think of) or similar?
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Old 28-01-2008, 11:37   #7
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Yes, of course! I think that what restricts other organized races from doing the same thing is fear of liability litigation. I wish we could have a 30 to 40 foot and a 40 to 50 foot class as well.
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Does "no regulations" mean no adherence to Racing Rules. In that case I'd say no.
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Old 28-01-2008, 11:40   #8
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Oh puhleezzzz! Why WOULDN'T you 'allow' this? Must we persist in this nanny state, lawyeristic mindset?? It's 'allowed' whenever anyone puts to sea on their own. Or would you rather get a Departure Permit/License. You know, Pay your permit fee, post your SAR bond of $50,000, certify that you and your crew have pased a test, experienced X number of 'heavy weather incidents', pass your sail handling demonstration test, and booked your transit dates and check in points......

It seems that even WITH some of those items you've eliminated, yachts get into trouble, people get killed/drowned/hit on the head/rescued so I hardly think that it would be worse as outlined above.

You did say 'without hiding' right?? :-)
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Old 28-01-2008, 11:49   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler View Post
If it is an organised race, do they not have to meet some Race rules. Like RORC(only one I could think of) or similar?
More an 'event' than a race in it's purest sense... i.e. all set off at the same time to the same destination and someone will get there first!

To quote from the Jester website
"Camaraderie, fun and a lack of formality are the guiding principles: in effect these Jester Challenges are organised by those competing in them."
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Old 28-01-2008, 11:50   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler View Post
If it is an organised race, do they not have to meet some Race rules. Like RORC(only one I could think of) or similar?
No rules. If you want to set out in a bathtub you can (unless you are later heading for Oz, via NZ )
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Old 28-01-2008, 12:12   #11
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I'm the only one that's said no to this so far. In the UK they've probably got the most relaxed regulations in the world in that you can buy pretty much anything and without any training, licencing or insurance you can do whatever you want. There are guys there sailing 40 foot boats that don't even know the rules of the road. I'm all for keeping regulation to a minimum and if some nut wants to kill themselves that's ok with me. I do have some thoughts for the rescue services though because they tend to get killed as well. Having said this, the thing that got me about the original post was that although I think an individual should be able to decide exactly what he should or shouldn't take on a passage, when it comes to an organised event, a minimum level of safety equipment needs to be stated. I didn't look at the web site and still haven't. From the original post it seems that anyone can enter and if that's the case everyone needs to be protected to some extent from the odd wanker that's going to put everone else at risk.
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Old 28-01-2008, 12:13   #12
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YES!
What this world needs "less" is "others" telling somebody how to get from POINT "A" to POINT "B"...................

I would PREFER entering a race like this as opposed to a having "CONDO-COMMANDO'S" (If you're in FLORIDA you'll understand!) running the show!

Besides, like previously stated, I'd hate to be the one to tell these OLD SALTS how to go to SEA!!!!!!
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Old 28-01-2008, 12:50   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
No rules. If you want to set out in a bathtub you can (unless you are later heading for Oz, via NZ )

We bath! I know. I had one recently. It had bubbles and yellow floating duck and a little blue whale.

Of course allow this 'event'.

If 'they' don't like your yacht then register it in a country that doesnt treat you like a jerk.
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Old 28-01-2008, 12:52   #14
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Originally Posted by stevelxls View Post

A simple two option Yes / No
to gauge opinion, but it's always very interesting to read the thoughts behind it!
A simple yes/no is insufficient.

If you would "not allow" this, then you are basically asking for the government to prevent people from doing something that they want to do. There is no other way for you to not allow it.

Some questions you might want to answer are:

- What do you want the government to do to prevent this? Not why -- what?

- Why should regulations for boats going as a group be different than boats going individually?

- What kind of government checks are you willing to submit to on your boat, so that those same checks would prevent somebody else from doing this?

- Do you become responsible for somebody else's boat when you say "I'll meet you in Annapolis in a week", or do you have to say "I'll race you to Annapolis"?

I don't see why the people in this event should have to do anything more than I do every time I take my boat out. If I demand tighter regulation of them, then I also have to accept it myself, and I am not interested in being regulated any more than I already am.
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Old 28-01-2008, 12:54   #15
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I vote no.

It is one thing to accept responsibility for your own actions, and quite another thing to ignore your responsibility to those you associate with. These sailors have formed a community and thus need to share their combined knowledge on how to safely complete this endeavor. If this requires setting minimum requirements and conducting inspections then so be it.

Otherwise, I think this is a great idea.
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