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View Poll Results: Would you allow this...???
Yes 114 95.00%
No 6 5.00%
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Old 15-02-2008, 12:56   #61
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I suspect that the 'Jester' challenge is named after the famous 25 foot, junk-rigged wooden folkboat of the same name. Owned and sailed by Blondie Hasler, she completed numerous solo transatlantic crossings including, if I am not mistaken, the the inaugural Observer Singlehanded Trans-Atlantic Challenge in 1960. Blondie (and I believe other entrants in the inaugural race) refused to carry radios; of course, there were no EPIRBS. They believed that it was their own responsibility to either make it to safety, or to go down with their ships.

Please understand that Blondie Hasler was decidedly no fool; in fact, I believe he was the inventor of the wind-vane self-steering rig. His invention (and his attitude) spoke to the importance of being self-reliant, something which I suspect many of the current entrants have no intention of being. If the rules prohibit EPIRBS and radios, I say go for it! It will stand as a true testament to 'Jester' and her skipper's stubborn refusal to put others at risk for what many saw as his own folley.

If, on the other hand, they are relying upon the rest of society to foot the bill for rescuing them from their incompetence or lack of preparation, then I say the race should not be held. Remember, there are huge risks to lives of the brave men and women who pilot and crew rescue helicoptors and boats. If the entrants expect to be able to rely upon these and other government resources instead of their own, then they should also expect government regulation of the event, the entrants and the vessels.


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Old 15-02-2008, 13:53   #62
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If this even is simular to a certain single-handed race that started in the 60's then yes. These were some very special people and I think if anyone attempting the same would use their example in preparation. Remember this was the time before EPIRB a, single-sideband radio and and GPS.

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Old 15-02-2008, 16:58   #63

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"Fool" is a very subjective term, unless one is looking at a fellow in a harlequin suit with floppy cap and bells on his curly toed shoes.

Some would would say that anyone who lives in San Francisco is a fool, because they're going to die in an earthquake, sooner or later.

Some folks who say that anyone who lives in DC or Chicago must be a fool, because the odds are pretty good they'll get shot and killed.

More folks would say only a fool lives in tornado country, or flood country.

And then again...what kind of fool would go to sea in a ship, when they could safely stay on land and built a secure home and family. Hmmmm....

One of the very few worthwhile concepts in Islam: The Gods protect madmen and fools.

I'd have nothing against SAR authorities saying "OK, before you go offshore? Fill out this form, and if we get a SAR call by or for you, here's what the rates will be if you haven't met these requirements." Because even those fools who risk their lives going out after other fools in the worst of weather, deserve a break.
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Old 21-05-2010, 07:41   #64
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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
No rules. If you want to set out in a bathtub you can (unless you are later heading for Oz, via NZ )
Only rule is the bathtubs no smaller than 20ft... longer than 30ft... unless the other participants vote to allow it...
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Old 21-05-2010, 08:24   #65
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Old 21-05-2010, 08:27   #66
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Originally Posted by conachair View Post
From BBC news website.

But James Stevens, training manager for the Royal Yachting Association, said according to the marine accident rate, the UK had a better safety record than many European countries where legislation is in place.
"Very few people take to the sea without any training, they're actually quite sensible. They understand they are not just putting themselves at risk but the investment in their boat.
"They know the sea's dangerous and they don't really need the government to tell them."
The Ministry of Transport told the programme there were no plans for legislation. For the size of the UK population, it said accident rates appeared low, but the Marine and Coastguard Agency is continuing research to quantify risks. (end)

In the UK, I would think that the vast majority of sailors would be taken aback that anyone would even consider asking such a question.

Another reason is that the excellent RNLI Lifeboats in the UK are(apart from the skipper+1) are all volunteers who's full time jobs are dropped as soon as the Maroon is fired... its an awesome sight in a place like Salcombe or Brixham... as butchers, jewelers, bakers etc.. throw their stuff to one side and charge down the hill to take their posts on the Lifeboat which the Skipper has ready with engines running as they arrive.. and the bulk of the non-tourists turn on their VHF radios to monitor the rescue...
That's the beauty of our system which is funded by and relies on donations and bequeathals in wills to survive... there's no commercialism of profit loss margins.. human life is placed above all.
Yes.. FRIENDS of mine who serve on these boats moan about the idiots they get called to on balmy days because they've run out of fuel and are drifting.. but before that happens there's a call to all small boats in the area to assist.. and they usually do.
I vote YES... I've seen some of these guys in Terceira(Azores) after the 08 and other places in their little Westerly 22's, Corribee's and the like... they know where they're at don't worry about that.
The ARC Rally has more fools sailing in it than the Jester ever will... where people pay quids for the false premise that because its 'Organised' with 'Rules' its safer...
the Jester Challenge basic rules do the culling..
As for Regulations... If France had its way an Optimist Dinghy would be required to carry a Life Raft..
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Old 21-05-2010, 08:41   #67
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yes of course
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Old 21-05-2010, 17:58   #68
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The fact that people vote no is pretty depressing. There really are people out there that think daddy laws are necessary.

I wear a helmet on my bike because it is safer for my brain than not wearing one. I have a radio in my boat because it is safer than not having one.

The legislation on either of these issues was decidedly not a driving force. I am not a rule utilitarian.
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Old 21-05-2010, 19:07   #69
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I hadn't thought about the idea of "X" miles from shore as a rescue limit. We actually have a similar concept here in Alaska. People who live in fire control zones (which includes additional taxes) have the fire department show up if their house of cabin catches on fire and try to put it out. If they live 100 feet outside the boundary, the fire department will show up and make sure their burning house doesn't start the neighbors house on fire who lives just inside the fire control zone. I've always had mixed feelings about how this works, but when applied to the sea I have a bit broader perspective. This has been an interesting thread
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Old 21-05-2010, 20:02   #70
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Originally Posted by Viking Sailor View Post

It is one thing to accept responsibility for your own actions, and quite another thing to ignore your responsibility to those you associate with. These sailors have formed a community and thus need to share their combined knowledge on how to safely complete this endeavor. If this requires setting minimum requirements and conducting inspections then so be it. --
It would appear that the combined knowledge of the Jester participants has resulted in a decision to allow the racers to compete without unwanted supervision and/or restrictions. Seems to me that anybody who doesn't approve of this should start their own race so they can control the participants to their heart's content.

As for the folk's worried about the cost/effort involved in "picking up the pieces", that's a problem which is easily solved - none of the racer's need carry any means of transmitting any form of communication beyond VHF range. This would result in minimum expense since there would be very few rescue efforts.

As for me, If everybody else would kindly not interfere in my business, I promise not to interfere in theirs. Seems to me one of the most basic rights is the right to be left alone.
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Old 21-05-2010, 21:14   #71
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I say yes, the only area I have any concern with is inspection.

I think a simple inspection, to give the skipper a heads up on items that may be an issue when out at sea.

Given the relaxed nature of this event, it would most likely draw some inexperienced skippers. Having someone who has done it give a suggestion or point out any areas of concern would be beneficial.

Still allow them to participate regardless, but a heads up would be nice.
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Old 21-05-2010, 22:52   #72
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My answer is Yes, but with a proviso:

All entrants get shoved into the loony bin for 1 month to have their heads read.

If they are not a few sheep short of the full flock then they can do what they like.
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Old 22-05-2010, 03:13   #73
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They´re off again tomorrow
Jester Challenge 2010

From the site..

"The few remaining begrudgers might note, too, that the Jester Challenge continues to fill a gap demanded by old-fashioned, proper seaman who are otherwise denied the opportunity to pit their wits against both the oceans and other like-minded seafarers."
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Old 22-05-2010, 05:07   #74
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I don't think I get the point of this thread. Why would any race organizer be responsible for ensuring the seaworthiness or safety of any participant. Pretty much any organization rule is going to be redundant or subservient to the normal USCG or other maritime laws in a particular jurisdiction. What's to allow or disallow?

Any time I get on a boat, I know it's up to me to follow any laws, and take precautions to keep myself safe. Participating in a very organized event with lots of rules, I still don't rely on the event sponsors, promoters, or officials to keep me safe. If I were to participate in this loosely organized event, it's the exact same situation.

When I participate in a keg party as an adult, it's still up to me to get home safely and legally. If the police want to park across the street and pull over drunk drivers, that's fine, but as long as the participants are all adults, the the guy who tapped the keg shouldn't have any particular obligation beyond checking the ages of his guests.
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Old 22-05-2010, 05:28   #75
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Should never be allowed.............. should never require permission.

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