Wisdom for New Cruisers

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Learn the few knots necessary for all boating. Don't over wrap a horn cleat, especially on a dock. Plus the alpine butterfly hitch. Always a fun one.

You've got me there. I know the Alpine Butterfly Loop (I use it frequently), the Alpine Butterfly Bend (I prefer the Zeppelin) but I've never come across an Alpine Butterfly Hitch. Care to enlighten me?

[foothillsailor]

" Is it having the knowledge base to handle your boat in 30 knot seas with 7 foot wind waves, seas at 9 feet every 9 seconds or to set comfy for a couple days waiting for everything to pass."


How do you know that once you are out there that conditions won't be worse than those forecasted --bearing in mind that weather forecasts 1) are NOT guaranteed and 2) are general forecasts for a large area and do NOT take into account local area conditions or vagaries and 3) can quickly change and 4) forecasted wind speeds are expected averages with occasional wind gusts and wave height being higher than the expected norm.


You will appreciate what I am talking about when you experience that the force of the wind varies by the square of its velocity and you unfortunately discover that instead of 30 knot winds you are now enjoying 40 knot winds, with gusts to 50, and increased seas to match.


First rule of seamanship --avoid trouble --second rule: expect and prepare for the unexpected.

[sailorboy1]

I would wait and it wouldn't even have crossed my mind not to!

[Juho]

The wisdom is not to get in trouble, even if you could. Train for the worst scenarios but don't seek them.

A smart person can get out of situations that a wise person never even gets into.

[s/v Beth]

Originally Posted by Juho

A smart person can get out of situations that a wise person never even gets into.

If you are female I am in love, if you are a guy, well we are just good friends....

[Winf]

Originally Posted by foothillsailor

You will appreciate what I am talking about when you experience that the force of the wind varies by the square of its velocity and you unfortunately discover that instead of 30 knot winds you are now enjoying 40 knot winds, with gusts to 50, and increased seas to match.

Isn't it worse than that. I thought it was a cubic relationship between wind speed and power?

[Juho]

Originally Posted by s/v Beth

If you are female I am in love, if you are a guy, well we are just good friends....

I guess that was my shortest love affair ever, sorry

[Peter200]

Better to be in port wishing you were out at sea than being out at sea wishing you were in port👍

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by taildragerdrive

So I think it depends on the boat and depends on the crew. I do think it is useful to up you game rather just sit in port is if wind is predicted over 15kts. ...............Just making the analysis is part of expanding your skill level.

To too many folks I know of, 15 knots is a FULL GALE. And then they motor directly into the waves!!! Sheez....

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by StuM

You've got me there. I know the Alpine Butterfly Loop (I use it frequently), the Alpine Butterfly Bend (I prefer the Zeppelin) but I've never come across an Alpine Butterfly Hitch. Care to enlighten me?

To Stu from Stu

You're right, bend. But I did use it to "hitch" one line to another....

[TacomaSailor]

Originally Posted by taildragerdrive

This is interesting.
Last fall I and a friend went to the Bahamas and we were the only ones who was out sailing in 25 to 30 kt winds. My boat sails very well in those conditions and it is really fun. We were virtually alone at sea and often got comments when we sailed into a harbor.

I of course have sailed her in 40 kt winds and felt comfortable. I have the experience and confidence in sailing in those winds. I'm glad we do it periodically because I continue to feel comfortable and a periodic refresher is good. I would not go out in predicted winds greater than 25 but as in this case it turned out to be 25 to 30 rather than 20 to 25.

So I think it depends on the boat and depends on the crew. I do think it is useful to up you game rather just sit in port is if wind is predicted over 15kts. If any of us do a longer passage it can occur that winds get above the predicted level.

So I agree if your not comfortable with your skills and your boat stay in the harbor. But I am a believer in the concept of pushing you personal envelope in sailing as well as flying. As I have often heard it is usually the crew that fails not the boat. Just making the analysis is part of expanding your skill level.

I think you are confusing cruising with sailing for fun. My reading of the OP question was "should we head out with a cruisings destination in mind - somewhere we want to go as a leg in an extended voyage when there are biggish seas at short periods and more wind than is useful?"

As opposed to "the wind is blowing and the seas are up - should we go for a sail?"

As a cruiser - my answer is "you are in no hurry to get somewhere so why subject yourself and your boat to the stress of 9' short period waves - wait for better cruising weather."

If you are a fulltime liveaboard cruiser it is a hard and time consuming to put everything away and get the interior shipshape for rough weather.

I was a hard core sailboat racer for decades before I became a cruiser. For the first five years I owned our current cruising boat I took her out in several storm force events, dozens of full gales, and probably 50 small craft events.

As a "fun sailor" I loved to take our cruiser out for a day of 8 knot sailing, and 10-knot surfing in six-foot waves. The boat handles it easily and well and I was a very experienced helmsman who was used to driving in 40-knots and 10' seas. I outfitted our 40' cutter with a Code 0, a big spinnaker, three staysails, and a trysail. I have used all those in more wind than they were intended for, (except fortunately the trysail and storm jib), and have hove to in 40+ knots several times, just for practise.

Our autopilot has sailed the boat downwind with the chute up in 8' seas and 35-knot gusts for hours. But, that was before it became our full time cruising home. It is our home and breaking stuff, especially in remote areas, is a real PITA!

Knowing the boat and captain have easily handled big seas and winds and had fun doing it gives us great confidence as cruisers. But, it also makes it easy for us to wait for easier conditions when out cruising.

The first promise my wife demanded when we bought our current cruisers, after being around hard core racers for 20-years, was "No racing - no racing equipment" and my answer was "Of course Dear!"

We have, during our long term cruising, enjoyed many 30-knot days and several 50-knot days, (and nights), but, if at all possible try hard to avoid them.

And, on some legs of our cruising I did head out with gales forecast because I knew, for absolutely sure, that the sea state would stay benign and there were no potential hazards on the route. I once did a 120 NM single handed overnight where I was counting on 35-knot gusts with a steady 25-knot wind to rush me along on a close reach. But, that was straight offshore wind where I would be no more than 3-miles out and there would be almost zero chance of other boats being out there. It was a hoot but also a special occasion due to the course being close to shore and guaranteed offshore wind.

But, now as a cruising captain on a full time liveaboard boat, I seldom venture out in anything more than Small Craft Advisories. We have too much "stuff" in our full time liveaboard home to make to comfortable for hard core sailing.

And, I suspect that is what the OP had in mind.

If Not - then ignore the verbal droolings of an old race hand turned liveaboard cruiser.

[secrabtree]

Originally Posted by RainDog

God give me the serenity to brave the storm at sea,

The patience to always wait for a good weather window,

And the wisdom to never need the serenity due to an abundance of the patience.

You got it RainDog!
Break out the Dominos or backgammon or whatever.

[FastCruiser]

Originally Posted by TacomaSailor

I think you are confusing cruising with sailing for fun. My reading of the OP question was "should we head out with a cruisings destination in mind - somewhere we want to go as a leg in an extended voyage when there are biggish seas at short periods and more wind than is useful?"

As opposed to "the wind is blowing and the seas are up - should we go for a sail?"

As a cruiser - my answer is "you are in no hurry to get somewhere so why subject yourself and your boat to the stress of 9' short period waves - wait for better cruising weather."

If you are a fulltime liveaboard cruiser it is a hard and time consuming to put everything away and get the interior shipshape for rough weather.

I was a hard core sailboat racer for decades before I became a cruiser. For the first five years I owned our current cruising boat I took her out in several storm force events, dozens of full gales, and probably 50 small craft events.

As a "fun sailor" I loved to take our cruiser out for a day of 8 knot sailing, and 10-knot surfing in six-foot waves. The boat handles it easily and well and I was a very experienced helmsman who was used to driving in 40-knots and 10' seas. I outfitted our 40' cutter with a Code 0, a big spinnaker, three staysails, and a trysail. I have used all those in more wind than they were intended for, (except fortunately the trysail and storm jib), and have hove to in 40+ knots several times, just for practise.

Our autopilot has sailed the boat downwind with the chute up in 8' seas and 35-knot gusts for hours. But, that was before it became our full time cruising home. It is our home and breaking stuff, especially in remote areas, is a real PITA!

Knowing the boat and captain have easily handled big seas and winds and had fun doing it gives us great confidence as cruisers. But, it also makes it easy for us to wait for easier conditions when out cruising.

The first promise my wife demanded when we bought our current cruisers, after being around hard core racers for 20-years, was "No racing - no racing equipment" and my answer was "Of course Dear!"

We have, during our long term cruising, enjoyed many 30-knot days and several 50-knot days, (and nights), but, if at all possible try hard to avoid them.

And, on some legs of our cruising I did head out with gales forecast because I knew, for absolutely sure, that the sea state would stay benign and there were no potential hazards on the route. I once did a 120 NM single handed overnight where I was counting on 35-knot gusts with a steady 25-knot wind to rush me along on a close reach. But, that was straight offshore wind where I would be no more than 3-miles out and there would be almost zero chance of other boats being out there. It was a hoot but also a special occasion due to the course being close to shore and guaranteed offshore wind.

But, now as a cruising captain on a full time liveaboard boat, I seldom venture out in anything more than Small Craft Advisories. We have too much "stuff" in our full time liveaboard home to make to comfortable for hard core sailing.

And, I suspect that is what the OP had in mind.

If Not - then ignore the verbal droolings of an old race hand turned liveaboard cruiser.

As the OP, it wasnt a question as much as a statement to newbe's as a wisdom call.
Have to laugh about the wife and racing as I am in about the same "boat" as you, having a background of racing for years and then moving aboard for cruising, and the first thing the wife said when we bought the boat was "You will NOT Race The House"... I figured it was a good trade off to go cruising..

[frozenhawaiian]

Originally Posted by FastCruiser

So We're setting here, waiting out a little weather, A High preasure area is fighting with a Low and the winds are building 25 to 30 knots with seas 7 to 9 feet every 9 seconds. And we're tucked into a slip, nose to the wind, and secure.
So where is the Wisdom here.. Is it having the knowledge base to handle your boat in 30 knot seas with 7 foot wind waves, seas at 9 feet every 9 seconds or to set comfy for a couple days waiting for everything to pass.
Sure I can handle my boat in such conditions, but I'm not in such a hurry do do so today.

So, for those experanced in Cruising, what tip, or tips of wisdom would you pass on to t New Cruiser.

actually, it's both. there will come a time when everyone gets stuck offshore in bad weather, it's a fact of life. knowing how to handle you boat in those kinds of conditions is a lifesaving skill. but also being prudent and staying secure in safe harbor when given the option is wise as well. other info? reef early, reef often, it's a lot easier to shake a reef in bad weather than to tuck one. if you're at sea leave your jacklines rigged at all times. harnesses and tethers are your friend. personally I'm a big fan of the inflatable PFD's with an integrated harness.

[Bulawayo]

Originally Posted by taildragerdrive

This is interesting.
Last fall I and a friend went to the Bahamas and we were the only ones who was out sailing in 25 to 30 kt winds. My boat sails very well in those conditions and it is really fun. We were virtually alone at sea and often got comments when we sailed into a harbor.

I of course have sailed her in 40 kt winds and felt comfortable. I have the experience and confidence in sailing in those winds. I'm glad we do it periodically because I continue to feel comfortable and a periodic refresher is good. I would not go out in predicted winds greater than 25 but as in this case it turned out to be 25 to 30 rather than 20 to 25.

So I think it depends on the boat and depends on the crew. I do think it is useful to up you game rather just sit in port is if wind is predicted over 15kts. If any of us do a longer passage it can occur that winds get above the predicted level.

So I agree if your not comfortable with your skills and your boat stay in the harbor. But I am a believer in the concept of pushing you personal envelope in sailing as well as flying. As I have often heard it is usually the crew that fails not the boat. Just making the analysis is part of expanding your skill level.

Try sitting in the Royal Cape Yacht Club - there are many sailors there that wait for the wind to die! They sit watching the regular 25 knot wind gusting to 30+ knots without actually identifying that 2 miles away the wind is 10-15knots. The Royal Cape gets the katabatic wind from Table Mountain...........
Local knowledge is indespensible.