Wire luff for Blade Jib

[fla_sail]

We have a 150% genoa on a roller furling system. Wind the wind gets up over 18kts, we get overpowered with a lot of weather helm. I know we can roll up the genny, but that leaves an undisireable sail shape and the clew is up pretty high.

I do have a blade jib with a wire luff (no hanks) that I can hoist, but the 3 times I have tried it away from the dock, I was not able to hoist it to the mast head. The wind just blows it out as I am hoisting. The jib halyard is led to the cockpit, but the main is already on the winch and I don't have any clutches. I know I need to send someone up the mast and probably replace the sheave, which might help speed the hoist.

I have considered putting on luff tape, and pulling down the genoa before raising the blade on the foil.

If I could get it hoisted with its existing luff and no hanks, is it dangerous because it is not attached to the forestay?

Any benefits to leaving the wire luff?

[BC Mike]

You can hoist a sail with no attachment in light air, or you can hoist a stay sail inside the spinnaker with out a stay. But for hoisting from the pointy end when the wind picks up the sail should be attached to something or something ugly could happen.
Do you have a spinnaker halyard to haul the sail up the second headsail halyard. The other problem is getting enough tension on the wyre luff. Sometimes you can find good used clutches, especially singles. I just bought a couple.
Michael

[JJ]

You can have ATN convert it to a Gale Sail or just buy a Gale Sail. If it is a true blade with battens it might not make the best conversion though.
see:
atninc.com

[fla_sail]

Well, it makes sense that I could hoist the blade inside the spinaker.

Wow, I really need someone with racing experience to show me how to use all the cool stuff on my boat. I have had it 3 years and I have barely scratched the surface.

I have a Spinaker with a sock, and asymetrical spinaker (no sock), and a "blooper" w/o sock in addition to the blade, 150% genoa and main.

I don't even know what a "blooper" is, it just looks like a light spinaker. I usually only fly the asymetrical becuase the other 2 are too much to rig with a 2 man crew.

From this, I guess that in light air, I could hoist the blooper, then host the blade inside of it?

The picture to the left is the asymetrical set.

I am not sure if it is a true blade, there are no battens. That is just what the previous owner called it, and it is printed on the sail bag. To me it looks like a 95% jib.

[BC Mike]

Boom on the right, wind comming over our left shoulder, spinnaker pole on the left, spinnaker up. The blooper goes on the right hand side in front of the main. They don't get used much these days, they need to be dropped before jibing the spinnaker.
The cruising chute or assymetric chute, can be flown so that a jibe takes it around and in front of the fore stay. That is using the spinnaker halyard that is outside of everything at the mast head. If you have a halyard inside the forestay at the top you can use it and jibe the cruising chute inside the forestay as if it were a headsail. You can also use your heavy symetrical spinnaker in this manner with both sheets tied to one corner and the other corner connected at the base of the forestay. The stay sail tack is usually about half way from the forestay tack to the mast. When you hoist the staysail with out a stay for it to run up on, it just blows forward against the spinnaker. Check your knot meter during all these maneuvers to see which gives you the best speed. You could unravel a small amount of the headsail as well, always checking the speed. We will drop the headsail after the spinnaker goes up and sometimes raise it a bit, checking the speed. Anything to garb a bit more wind. Using the heavy chute with out a pole while cruising is a good way to add speed downwind with out the hassel of jibing a pole. Ask again if this gets confusing.
Michael

[fla_sail]

That paragraph is more help than I have gotten in 3 years! Thanks.

I do have 2 pad eyes on the deck halfway between the forstay and mast, but I did not think they were strong enough to hoist another headsail on.

I will be trying these setups after we finish the deck painting job!! that is quite a bit to play with.

[BC Mike]

Made me think of an actual experience. We rounded the windward mark, two seventy footers and a Farr 55 in front of us, a herd of Farr 38s, a two tonner and the rest of the fleet behind.
Main out, chute up, blooper up, steady plane at about 10 knots in four foot seas ( I have the photo ) time for a few beers and steak and kidney pies. To the down wind mark, do a chute peel, change the big one for the smaller flat one, drop the blooper and turn left at the mark, same speed on a reach, wind got tight so hoist the flat number two and drop the chute. Was on a sailmakers 40 foot boat who had more sails than we could count.
Auckland regatta about 1982.
Michael

[Catamount]

here's a link to a photo of some boats flying bloopers along with their spinnakers:

http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums...=post&id=20514


Regarding the blade jib with the wire luff -- one trick would be to spend $ on a single-line furling unit (e.g. facnor). The sail get's rolled up on it's own luff wire, and is raised as a unit. You can unfurl it once you get the halyard tensioned. This would overcome the current problem you are having with the sail filling before you've got it all the way up. But you will still have a problem getting sufficient halyard tension to fly the sail adequately without hanking it to a stay. You may want to consider a 2:1 purchase in your halyard, in addition to running the halyard tail to a winch.

I'm planning to add a removable inner forestay to my boat, for hanking on a heavy air blade jib, or storm jib should it come to that.

fla_sail once whispered in the wind:
I do have 2 pad eyes on the deck halfway between the forstay and mast, but I did not think they were strong enough to hoist another headsail on.

Look below decks to see how/if these padeyes are reinforced. Do they have tie rods that go from below deck down to the hull? Are there bulkheads nearby? They may well be intended as places to tack staysails or to attach an inner forestay or a baby stay.

Regards,

Tim

[Jon D]

Going to ask a dumb question.

Is the sail possibly an spinnaker staysail.

Based on what I'm reading think it maybe. These typically are a sail designed to fit in the foretriangle between the headstay and the mast and hoisted when reaching using the spinnaker. They usually have a wire or rope luff as they are not designed to go on a stay but free flying. Just thinking that cause the boat has a blooper etc. which means to me it was being raced pretty seriously along the way.

[fla_sail]

Thanks so much for the response so far.
I am pretty sure that the padeye is for the blade, it is close to a bulkhead down below, but I don't know if it is right on it or not, I will check next time I to down to the boat. Also, there is a coil of wire that I always thought was th original forstay, before the Furlex was installed, that could be an inner-forestay i guess...

I am now not sure if the sail that I was told was an asymetric isn't actually the blooper.

Would it be likely to have one heavier spinaker, and one lighter one and a blooper?

Here is my spinaker:
http://www.flsail.com/html/sailing_25.html

I don't have any pics of the blade or the other sail I thought was a blooper. I have flown it once, an it just looked like a spinaker, just semed to be lighter cloth.

Here are a few shots of what I was told was an asymetric, but it doesn't look or set much like the cruising chutes I've seen:

http://www.flsail.com/html/sailing_11.html
http://www.flsail.com/html/sailing_12.html

None of my shots show it, but I think it it looks quite a bit like the bloopers in the next links:
http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums...1127995018.jpg
http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums...&st=&p=&#entry


I think the original owner raced it heavily in the early eighties. I am all self-taught, and have only raced a couple beer can races so I am not familiar with all these different sails. We have only put up teh chutes when no one else was close by.

I guess maybe I should take them to the loft when I bring the 150% in for some restiching on the sunbrella strip and see what they say.

You guys have been a real help!! Thanks for helping out a newbie.

[BC Mike]

First photo looks like a regular spinnaker. Need a photo showing the whole sail from the front. Number two ditto, #3 ditto, #4 looks like an assymetric spinnaker on the left, need a front on shot showing the whole of both sails. A shot from the rear would help. A blooper has a curve on the luff as it wraps around the regular spinnker. None of the photos show the complete sail front on, so an accurate judgement can not be made.
Dead down wind it is possible to fly a variety of sails on the opposite side of the pole in front of the main. A number two spinnaker can be flown as if it was an assymetric chute. A number two chute will be a heavier weight material, and the shoulders will not be as full. Sometimes the main blocks the wind of sails flown on the same side, so a reef in the main will work. Some boats like to be dragged from the pointy end rather than pushed by the main, so two headsails, or two chutes, or a chute and an assymetric chute can be used, with the reef in the main. On windy days two headsails and a reefed main may be just as fast as a spinnaker, but the twin headsail set up will be a lot more stable. That is a big deal when steering by the wind vane or auto helm.
Michael

[Catamount]

fla_sail once whispered in the wind:
I am now not sure if the sail that I was told was an asymetric isn't actually the blooper.

Would it be likely to have one heavier spinaker, and one lighter one and a blooper?

Yes. My boat came with the following free-flying sails:

* 1.5 oz heavy-air spinnaker
* 0.75 oz All-Purpose spinnaker
* 0.6 and 0.5 oz light-weight spinnakers
* blooper
* spinnaker staysail

The heavier spinnaker will likely be smaller (narrower shoulders) than the lighter ones.

Regards,