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Old 23-08-2017, 15:02   #1
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Will Sailboats Still Be Made in 30 Years?

Or will sailboats be mostly replaced by hybrid technology?

Cruising boats with solar generating topsides (like the Tesla Roof), wind generators instead of sails, wave/current energy converters plus a small backup diesel engine all providing electricity to highly efficient battery and propulsion systems could provide unlimited, zero emission range and comfort to wander the world.

While I love sailing, learning how to sail is a big barrier to entry and powerboats are really expensive to run.

What do you think?
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Old 23-08-2017, 15:04   #2
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Re: Will Sailboats Still Be Made in 30 Years?

I'm reminded of a quote by Chief Engineer Montgomery Scott in Star Trek:

"The more they overwork the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain."
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Old 23-08-2017, 15:34   #3
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Re: Will Sailboats Still Be Made in 30 Years?

Yes

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Originally Posted by comesatime View Post
Or will sailboats be mostly replaced by hybrid technology?
No
Quote:
Cruising boats with solar generating topsides (like the Tesla Roof), wind generators instead of sails, wave/current energy converters plus a small backup diesel engine all providing electricity to highly efficient battery and propulsion systems could provide unlimited, zero emission range and comfort to wander the world.

While I love sailing, learning how to sail is a big barrier to entry and powerboats are really expensive to run.

What do you think?
All those lovely energy sources combined do not contain anywhere near the usable energy of 20 knots of wind on a hundred square metres of sail.
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Old 23-08-2017, 15:57   #4
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Re: Will Sailboats Still Be Made in 30 Years?

Learning to sail is a barrier?

If someone wants to sail....they'll learn. It's only a barrier if it is treated as one.
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Old 23-08-2017, 16:14   #5
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Re: Will Sailboats Still Be Made in 30 Years?

I imagine most people sail because they like to sail.
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Old 23-08-2017, 16:34   #6
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Re: Will Sailboats Still Be Made in 30 Years?

I like sailing. I dislike motoring. I don't think I'd like motoring any more if it was electric. (With a small diesel for backup LOL)
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Old 23-08-2017, 16:36   #7
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Re: Will Sailboats Still Be Made in 30 Years?

Quote:
Originally Posted by comesatime View Post

What do you think?
I think man has been using sails on boats for 1,000s and 1,000s of years and given how far technology wise we have come since then, but are using sails today, that we still will be using sails a 1,000 years from now.
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Old 23-08-2017, 17:07   #8
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Re: Will Sailboats Still Be Made in 30 Years?

i will be sailing whilst you are sitting in port waiting for DHL,spare parts,new batteries or the sun to shine............
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Old 23-08-2017, 17:09   #9
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Re: Will Sailboats Still Be Made in 30 Years?

Learning to sail is a barrier ,,, well ??
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Old 23-08-2017, 19:11   #10
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Re: Will Sailboats Still Be Made in 30 Years?

Motor boats under 40 feet are actually cheaper to run than the riggings of sailboat if we mean cruisers here.
Over a lengthy discussion and looking over a myriad of design and technological advancement, there is still no economically or practically viable alternative for sailboat in terms of long distance traveling. No battery last that long and not all boats can carry 3,000 gallons of fuel.
The key point here is range.
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Old 24-08-2017, 04:26   #11
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Re: Will Sailboats Still Be Made in 30 Years?

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No battery last that long ...
This thread is about looking 30 years ahead ...
While solar and battery technologies are improving really fast now :-)
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Old 24-08-2017, 05:54   #12
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Re: Will Sailboats Still Be Made in 30 Years?

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i will be sailing whilst you are sitting in port waiting for DHL,spare parts,new batteries or the sun to shine............
Because no sailor has had to wait in port for a parts for the rigging and the wind is always blowing?

Yes, there will be sailboats if just for the nostalgia.

No, they won't by hybrid.
- The advantage of a hybrid car is that you can set the IC Engine at it's ideal output then the battery either absorbs the excess output during low power situations (ie: coasting up to a stop light) and sends it back out during high power situations (ie: taking off from a stop light). Converting that power to battery and back wastes some but far less than running the ICE way outside it's ideal operating parameters.
- The problem with a hybrid displacement cruising boat is the vast majority of operating time, the motor is set at a speed and it stays there until you get to your destination. There are no peaks and valleys to take advantage of. The motor is sized to run pretty close to it's ideal output at cruising speed. As a result, since you don't have losses converting power to battery storage and back, a direct drive diesel is more efficient.

No, improvements in technology show no signs of being able to compete. If you pull the rigging off and cover the entire area with solar panels. Example: Let's say you have a 40' catamaran with 20' beam (mono would be far worse).
- At a typical 10w per sqft, that's about 8kw or about 10hp. Your typical cat in that size range has 40-60hp total, so even if solar panel output doubled, you would still only have 20hp in generation. Even worse, that's only for a few hours on sunny days. At night, early/late day, cloudy days...you get drastically less power.
- Batteries face similar issues. A gallon of diesel holds dozens of times more energy than the best batteries. To get a few hundred miles of range (easy with a modest diesel powered boat), would take a massive battery bank even if storage doubled. Of course the biggest reason electric cars cost 1/3 more is because the battery banks are expensive. Tack on an extra $50k for a battery bank and you can burn a lot of diesel before you come close to breaking even.
- Windmills and other crazy ideas: The drag off a windmill exceeds the power it can generate. You don't magically go dead to windward by cranking up the windmills.
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Old 24-08-2017, 05:56   #13
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Re: Will Sailboats Still Be Made in 30 Years?

Hard to tell whether sailing will have the same level of activity, but there will always be those who want to get back to whatever their version of the “basics” is… The invention of the locomotive/car/plane doesn’t seem to have wiped out hiking although it probably has eroded the possible number of participants… Nor does the advent of the powerboat seem to have wiped out the sailboat, nor the multihull the monohull… all seem to find/create their own audiences… And, for those who are enamored with wall-to-wall techno-gizmos and gadgetry, the new technology may serve as a modest introduction – a possible bridge between the virtual world and the real one…
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Old 24-08-2017, 06:14   #14
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Re: Will Sailboats Still Be Made in 30 Years?

in 30 years we will be sailing any boat we would like in any conditions we would like by putting on a set of 3D goggles and watching a simulation.

We will never really have to step foot on a REAL boat, why, I mean those are really expensive.

Men will not need woman and woman will not need men anymore, Why, well the simulation will be far better and when things get tough, well just hit the OFF switch.

I mean, whats not to like about that
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Old 24-08-2017, 06:52   #15
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Re: Will Sailboats Still Be Made in 30 Years?

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
Because no sailor has had to wait in port for a parts for the rigging and the wind is always blowing?
I never had to wait for rigging part. Sometimes the wind is blowing the wrong way.
Quote:

No, improvements in technology show no signs of being able to compete. If you pull the rigging off and cover the entire area with solar panels. Example: Let's say you have a 40' catamaran with 20' beam (mono would be far worse).
- At a typical 10w per sqft, that's about 8kw or about 10hp. Your typical cat in that size range has 40-60hp total, so even if solar panel output doubled, you would still only have 20hp in generation.
A typical cat uses very inefficient drive systems. If you use much larger propellers turning 200-300 rpm, you can achieve the same speed from this area of solar panels. Not to mention you don't need it when the kite is up, or you aren't going.
Quote:
- Windmills and other crazy ideas: The drag off a windmill exceeds the power it can generate. You don't magically go dead to windward by cranking up the windmills.
You are completely wrong.

They have built boats that go both directly upwind using windmills, and also dead down wind faster than the wind.
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