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Old 10-07-2015, 15:25   #46
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Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors

If anyone thinks WBB is bad, try Brunswick Heads!
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Old 10-07-2015, 16:21   #47
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Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors

In regard to the setting of the waypoint co-ordinates. One has to remember that a bar is a very dynamic area. One could storm can change it characteristics markedly. I imagine when the survey was done for the present co-ordinates they were correct at the time. I understand that what ever agency does this can go out every day or week for that matter hence the current information being supplied.

Where I come from the Swansea channel depths vary over time with the local marine rescue advising of the new shallow areas. Same thing but just not as notorious as the WBB.


Greg and Sue
SV Sunshine
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Old 10-07-2015, 17:19   #48
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Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors

2Wind.

I exited over the bar last September and assumed the waypoints would be the same for my return journey.

I contacted Tin Can Bay VMR as a precaution who sent a text with the current waypoints.

To my surprise they had changed and there were only two waypoints instead of the three of a few months previously.

Tin Can Bay are very helpful and assist in every way possible.
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Old 11-07-2015, 01:04   #49
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Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozsailer View Post
In regard to the setting of the waypoint co-ordinates. One has to remember that a bar is a very dynamic area. One could storm can change it characteristics markedly. I imagine when the survey was done for the present co-ordinates they were correct at the time. I understand that what ever agency does this can go out every day or week for that matter hence the current information being supplied.



Greg and Sue
SV Sunshine
Throw in the usual bureaucratic delays, and yep, the waypoints can be obsolete by the time they're published.
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Old 11-07-2015, 01:39   #50
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Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
Throw in the usual bureaucratic delays, and yep, the waypoints can be obsolete by the time they're published.
Not in this case. Waypoint B was incorrect, in the sense of being on a sandbank, when the 2015 Notice to Mariners was issued by Maritime Safety Queensland.


One cruiser (earlier in this thread) suggested Waypoint B was incorrect in 2014 when the 2014 Notice to Mariners was issued. I cannot vouch for that, but fellow cruisers at Scarborough Marina reckon that that was the case and that Tin Can Bay VMR has been stuck in the situation in which they can only legally give the MSQ waypoints and then advise mariners to pass 100 metres N of Waypoint B.


Waypoints, as the word suggests, are points along the route of advance. Not points one aims to pass 100 m to one side.


I suggest the evidence points to a blunder by MSQ. A blunder that has been around for months and not corrected.


Al
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Old 11-07-2015, 02:20   #51
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Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors

It is extremely frustrating.

However, MSQ, are just people, eventually, and humans make errors. Beyond that, there is always shortage of funding. One day, someone may sue [sorry for the Americanism] their a** off, and the result is unlikely to help mariners. C'est la vie.

Ann
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Old 11-07-2015, 03:44   #52
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Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors

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Not in this case. Waypoint B was incorrect, in the sense of being on a sandbank, when the 2015 Notice to Mariners was issued by Maritime Safety Queensland.

I suggest the evidence points to a blunder by MSQ. A blunder that has been around for months and not corrected.
The most casual search on this site (see: Wide Bay Bar (QLD)) shows CF members Wanderlust and 44'cruisingcat discussing the problem in December 2014. The current Notice To Mariners (13 of 2015) was issued 3 months after that.


That suggests criminal negligence, not human error.


Bureaucratic heads should roll. If only we lived in a democracy responsive to the taxpayer!


Al
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Old 11-07-2015, 06:05   #53
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Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors

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Originally Posted by Alan Mighty View Post
The most casual search on this site (see: Wide Bay Bar (QLD)) shows CF members Wanderlust and 44'cruisingcat discussing the problem in December 2014. The current Notice To Mariners (13 of 2015) was issued 3 months after that.


That suggests criminal negligence, not human error.


Bureaucratic heads should roll. If only we lived in a democracy responsive to the taxpayer!


Al
Slack yes, abysmally stupid yes. Criminal - NO. Not even close. Suggest you puruse at least Chapter 5 of the Criminal Code before getting carried away.

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One day, someone may sue [sorry for the Americanism] their a** off,Ann
Not going to happen either, qualified crown privilege.
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Old 11-07-2015, 06:27   #54
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Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors

Now that we are drifting somewhat, can someone please explain to me why Tin Can Bay VMR are constrained to only giving the MSQ waypoints for the WBB.

In what way are they beholden to MSQ.
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Old 11-07-2015, 06:37   #55
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Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors

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Originally Posted by micknor51 View Post
Was there any beer left in the refrigerator?I did not see it there Aug 2010 so it must have been knocked off. It is terrible when aids to navigation go missing.
I had to rely on the Tin Can Bay Marine Rescue waypoints a much better option from very professional guys.
Michael
I hope my post was not interpreted as being critical or "flaming" anyone as that was not my intention. I was merely attempting to add a little humour into life, ( OK granted my humour may be a little warped for some)!
It looked like 'fnoldsalt' was being blamed for my post, mea culpa if I am the guilty one, apologies to all no malice intended.
Wide Bay Bay can be a bit of a bother in the wrong conditions and the Tin Can Bay MR do a great job providing coordinates.
Glad to see that Ozsailor, Greg and Sue on SV Sunshine, crossed the bar safely.
Cheers for now I will try to be good.
Michael
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Old 11-07-2015, 07:15   #56
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Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors

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Originally Posted by micknor51 View Post
I hope my post was not interpreted as being critical or "flaming" anyone as that was not my intention. I was merely attempting to add a little humour into life, ( OK granted my humour may be a little warped for some)!
Not at all.
I remember a fridge, or something, on the beach near Hook Point on Fraser Island near the leading line. I cant remember now as it was 2009 and of course I may have my memory screwed up. But if I was told to use it it can only have come from Alan Lucas as thats the guide I was using.

But it was just an aside in my post pointing to some of the humour of navigating (further up north theres a good bit of advice not to go too close to a wrecked ship on a reef!).

If life ain't got a smile is it really worth it?

Mark
PS if there were beers in it I would have surfed to shore for one!
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Old 11-07-2015, 15:57   #57
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Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors

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Originally Posted by Alan Mighty View Post
Not in this case. Waypoint B was incorrect, in the sense of being on a sandbank, when the 2015 Notice to Mariners was issued by Maritime Safety Queensland.



Al
Which is kind of what I said, isn't it? Obsolete by the time it was published....
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Old 11-07-2015, 16:04   #58
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Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors

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Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
Now that we are drifting somewhat, can someone please explain to me why Tin Can Bay VMR are constrained to only giving the MSQ waypoints for the WBB.

In what way are they beholden to MSQ.
It probably is due to fear of liability. In NSW, VMR's are reluctant to even advise on bar conditions. Or at least, they will tell you if a bar is bad, but they won't say it's good.

But with the marvel of the internet, you can check out a lot of bars yourself:

NEW SOUTH WALES SURF CAMS & SURF REPORTS | Coastalwatch.com
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Old 11-07-2015, 18:57   #59
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Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors

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Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Not at all.
I remember a fridge, or something, on the beach near Hook Point on Fraser Island near the leading line. I cant remember now as it was 2009 and of course I may have my memory screwed up. But if I was told to use it it can only have come from Alan Lucas as thats the guide I was using.

But it was just an aside in my post pointing to some of the humour of navigating (further up north theres a good bit of advice not to go too close to a wrecked ship on a reef!).

If life ain't got a smile is it really worth it?

Mark
PS if there were beers in it I would have surfed to shore for one!
Cheers Mark,
I'll drink to that, bottoms up.
Oops not boat bottoms!!
Michael
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Old 12-07-2015, 02:47   #60
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Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors

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I suspect Maritime Safety Queensland do not update the information sufficiently often enough to maintain currency bearing in mind the fluctuating nature of coastal bars. As such, there is a lag time between actual need for a change in the WPT and the publication thereof. In the meantime, the VMR radio stations are restricted by virtue of their "legal" responsibility to only broadcast the official (and potentially outdated) WPT data, although they know it is incorrect. Hence they may allude to a minor course deviation, but cannot broadcast the a WPT position that is not official
They would have to admit to being wrong in the first instance, something which never happens with Queensland's bureaucrats.
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