|
|
10-07-2015, 14:25
|
#46
|
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,398
|
Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors
If anyone thinks WBB is bad, try Brunswick Heads!
|
|
|
10-07-2015, 15:21
|
#47
|
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Hervey Bay Qld Australia
Boat: currently boatless
Posts: 695
|
Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors
In regard to the setting of the waypoint co-ordinates. One has to remember that a bar is a very dynamic area. One could storm can change it characteristics markedly. I imagine when the survey was done for the present co-ordinates they were correct at the time. I understand that what ever agency does this can go out every day or week for that matter hence the current information being supplied.
Where I come from the Swansea channel depths vary over time with the local marine rescue advising of the new shallow areas. Same thing but just not as notorious as the WBB.
Greg and Sue
SV Sunshine
|
|
|
10-07-2015, 16:19
|
#48
|
Registered User
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Townsville. Australia.
Boat: Roberts 31
Posts: 16
|
Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors
2Wind.
I exited over the bar last September and assumed the waypoints would be the same for my return journey.
I contacted Tin Can Bay VMR as a precaution who sent a text with the current waypoints.
To my surprise they had changed and there were only two waypoints instead of the three of a few months previously.
Tin Can Bay are very helpful and assist in every way possible.
|
|
|
11-07-2015, 00:04
|
#49
|
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,398
|
Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozsailer
In regard to the setting of the waypoint co-ordinates. One has to remember that a bar is a very dynamic area. One could storm can change it characteristics markedly. I imagine when the survey was done for the present co-ordinates they were correct at the time. I understand that what ever agency does this can go out every day or week for that matter hence the current information being supplied.
Greg and Sue
SV Sunshine
|
Throw in the usual bureaucratic delays, and yep, the waypoints can be obsolete by the time they're published.
|
|
|
11-07-2015, 00:39
|
#50
|
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Moreton Bay
Boat: US$4,550 of lead under a GRP hull with cutter rig
Posts: 2,135
|
Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors
Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat
Throw in the usual bureaucratic delays, and yep, the waypoints can be obsolete by the time they're published.
|
Not in this case. Waypoint B was incorrect, in the sense of being on a sandbank, when the 2015 Notice to Mariners was issued by Maritime Safety Queensland.
One cruiser (earlier in this thread) suggested Waypoint B was incorrect in 2014 when the 2014 Notice to Mariners was issued. I cannot vouch for that, but fellow cruisers at Scarborough Marina reckon that that was the case and that Tin Can Bay VMR has been stuck in the situation in which they can only legally give the MSQ waypoints and then advise mariners to pass 100 metres N of Waypoint B.
Waypoints, as the word suggests, are points along the route of advance. Not points one aims to pass 100 m to one side.
I suggest the evidence points to a blunder by MSQ. A blunder that has been around for months and not corrected.
Al
__________________
“Fools say that you can only gain experience at your own expense, but I have always contrived to gain my experience at the expense of others.” - Otto von Bismarck
|
|
|
11-07-2015, 01:20
|
#51
|
Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 28,400
|
Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors
It is extremely frustrating.
However, MSQ, are just people, eventually, and humans make errors. Beyond that, there is always shortage of funding. One day, someone may sue [sorry for the Americanism] their a** off, and the result is unlikely to help mariners. C'est la vie.
Ann
__________________
Who scorns the calm has forgotten the storm.
|
|
|
11-07-2015, 02:44
|
#52
|
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Moreton Bay
Boat: US$4,550 of lead under a GRP hull with cutter rig
Posts: 2,135
|
Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mighty
Not in this case. Waypoint B was incorrect, in the sense of being on a sandbank, when the 2015 Notice to Mariners was issued by Maritime Safety Queensland.
I suggest the evidence points to a blunder by MSQ. A blunder that has been around for months and not corrected.
|
The most casual search on this site (see: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ld-138595.html) shows CF members Wanderlust and 44'cruisingcat discussing the problem in December 2014. The current Notice To Mariners (13 of 2015) was issued 3 months after that.
That suggests criminal negligence, not human error.
Bureaucratic heads should roll. If only we lived in a democracy responsive to the taxpayer!
Al
__________________
“Fools say that you can only gain experience at your own expense, but I have always contrived to gain my experience at the expense of others.” - Otto von Bismarck
|
|
|
11-07-2015, 05:05
|
#53
|
Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Multihulls - cats and Tris
Posts: 4,859
|
Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mighty
The most casual search on this site (see: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ld-138595.html) shows CF members Wanderlust and 44'cruisingcat discussing the problem in December 2014. The current Notice To Mariners (13 of 2015) was issued 3 months after that.
That suggests criminal negligence, not human error.
Bureaucratic heads should roll. If only we lived in a democracy responsive to the taxpayer!
Al
|
Slack yes, abysmally stupid yes. Criminal - NO. Not even close. Suggest you puruse at least Chapter 5 of the Criminal Code before getting carried away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate
One day, someone may sue [sorry for the Americanism] their a** off,Ann
|
Not going to happen either, qualified crown privilege.
|
|
|
11-07-2015, 05:27
|
#54
|
Moderator and Certifiable Refitter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: C.L.O.D.
Posts: 20,242
|
Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors
Now that we are drifting somewhat, can someone please explain to me why Tin Can Bay VMR are constrained to only giving the MSQ waypoints for the WBB.
In what way are they beholden to MSQ.
__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
|
|
|
11-07-2015, 05:37
|
#55
|
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Newcastle and Lake Macquarie, NSW, Australia
Boat: Adams 35ft, round bilge steel, SV Saaremaa
Posts: 83
|
Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors
Quote:
Originally Posted by micknor51
Was there any beer left in the refrigerator? I did not see it there Aug 2010 so it must have been knocked off. It is terrible when aids to navigation go missing.
I had to rely on the Tin Can Bay Marine Rescue waypoints a much better option from very professional guys.
Michael
|
I hope my post was not interpreted as being critical or "flaming" anyone as that was not my intention. I was merely attempting to add a little humour into life, ( OK granted my humour may be a little warped for some)!
It looked like 'fnoldsalt' was being blamed for my post, mea culpa if I am the guilty one, apologies to all no malice intended.
Wide Bay Bay can be a bit of a bother in the wrong conditions and the Tin Can Bay MR do a great job providing coordinates.
Glad to see that Ozsailor, Greg and Sue on SV Sunshine, crossed the bar safely.
Cheers for now I will try to be good.
Michael
__________________
Saaremaasailson
|
|
|
11-07-2015, 06:15
|
#56
|
Long Range Cruiser
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,822
|
Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors
Quote:
Originally Posted by micknor51
I hope my post was not interpreted as being critical or "flaming" anyone as that was not my intention. I was merely attempting to add a little humour into life, ( OK granted my humour may be a little warped for some)!
|
Not at all.
I remember a fridge, or something, on the beach near Hook Point on Fraser Island near the leading line. I cant remember now as it was 2009 and of course I may have my memory screwed up. But if I was told to use it it can only have come from Alan Lucas as thats the guide I was using.
But it was just an aside in my post pointing to some of the humour of navigating (further up north theres a good bit of advice not to go too close to a wrecked ship on a reef!).
If life ain't got a smile is it really worth it?
Mark
PS if there were beers in it I would have surfed to shore for one!
|
|
|
11-07-2015, 14:57
|
#57
|
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,398
|
Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mighty
Not in this case. Waypoint B was incorrect, in the sense of being on a sandbank, when the 2015 Notice to Mariners was issued by Maritime Safety Queensland.
Al
|
Which is kind of what I said, isn't it? Obsolete by the time it was published....
|
|
|
11-07-2015, 15:04
|
#58
|
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,398
|
Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wotname
Now that we are drifting somewhat, can someone please explain to me why Tin Can Bay VMR are constrained to only giving the MSQ waypoints for the WBB.
In what way are they beholden to MSQ.
|
It probably is due to fear of liability. In NSW, VMR's are reluctant to even advise on bar conditions. Or at least, they will tell you if a bar is bad, but they won't say it's good.
But with the marvel of the internet, you can check out a lot of bars yourself:
NEW SOUTH WALES SURF CAMS & SURF REPORTS | Coastalwatch.com
|
|
|
11-07-2015, 17:57
|
#59
|
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Newcastle and Lake Macquarie, NSW, Australia
Boat: Adams 35ft, round bilge steel, SV Saaremaa
Posts: 83
|
Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ
Not at all.
I remember a fridge, or something, on the beach near Hook Point on Fraser Island near the leading line. I cant remember now as it was 2009 and of course I may have my memory screwed up. But if I was told to use it it can only have come from Alan Lucas as thats the guide I was using.
But it was just an aside in my post pointing to some of the humour of navigating (further up north theres a good bit of advice not to go too close to a wrecked ship on a reef!).
If life ain't got a smile is it really worth it?
Mark
PS if there were beers in it I would have surfed to shore for one!
|
Cheers Mark,
I'll drink to that, bottoms up.
Oops not boat bottoms!!
Michael
__________________
Saaremaasailson
|
|
|
12-07-2015, 01:47
|
#60
|
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Boat: Island Packet 40
Posts: 6,416
|
Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors
Quote:
I suspect Maritime Safety Queensland do not update the information sufficiently often enough to maintain currency bearing in mind the fluctuating nature of coastal bars. As such, there is a lag time between actual need for a change in the WPT and the publication thereof. In the meantime, the VMR radio stations are restricted by virtue of their "legal" responsibility to only broadcast the official (and potentially outdated) WPT data, although they know it is incorrect. Hence they may allude to a minor course deviation, but cannot broadcast the a WPT position that is not official
|
They would have to admit to being wrong in the first instance, something which never happens with Queensland's bureaucrats.
|
|
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
Display Modes |
Rate This Thread |
Linear Mode
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
Advertise Here
Recent Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Vendor Spotlight |
|
|
|