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Old 06-07-2015, 02:27   #16
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Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors

Good luck with the crossing. A word of caution emphasising what Jim and others have said. The afternoon setting sun significantly limits any chance of seeing the sector marker on south Fraser although the leads of Inskip will be easier to see after you turn at WPT 2.


Thanks to all for contributing. Thank goodness VMR Tin Can Bay are always there! There is not enough appreciation of the Volunteer Marine Services.....
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Old 08-07-2015, 16:28   #17
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Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors

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Originally Posted by ozsailer View Post
Hello all,
at the moment we are sitting at Mooloolaba Marina for some R and R and a service on our motors and plan to cross the bar this Friday or Saturday taking into account the present weather and sea conditions. I contacted Tin Can Bay VMR today and they were only to happy to forward the new bar crossing co-ordinates. I won't repeat them here as they do change from time to time and hate to see someone use old information. It has changed from when we crossed last year from three waypoints to two. These mark the Sea entry point to the turn then to follow the leads into Inskip point. Have entered the co-ords into both chart plotters ready in advance and deleted old waypoints. Don't want to get mixed up with old co-ordinates.
Saturday is looking good for a north transit with 1.5 metres sea and 1.3 metre swell with a high tide at 5.10pm. Plan on leaving Mooloolaba around 5am which gives us a couple of hours grace for the bar crossing. Will let you know the results - or read about it in the paper .


Greg and Sue
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Just wondering, did they advise you that there might be breaking waves at waypoint "B", and that you may need to steer north of it?

Anyway, as you're coming in, keep your eyes open. We could see the waves breaking from a good distance off, and were able to change course accordingly, while surfing at around 15 knots.
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Old 08-07-2015, 16:30   #18
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Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors

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fnoldsalt, I see that this is but your second post on CF. If you intend to make any further posts, please mind your manners a bit. Some research into posters whom you want to flame might help avoid your looking like a fool, too. MarkJ is an Aussie, and has been up and down the Qld coast a few times before his current circumnavigation began.

I dunno about the fridge, because I first crossed that bar in 1992. In those years there were indeed proper range markers to lead you across the bar itself. They were later removed and a sector light installed in their place. This light is useless in the afternoon sun and westerly glare, so folks now rely upon the gps coordinates supplied by MSQ via the local VMR. As noted, these coordinates are sometimes a bit out of date and should be supplemented with the eyeball.

So, to reiterate: disagreeing with a post is OK, but derogatory statements about other posters is not OK.

Jim (who despite being a Yank, has crossed the WBB quite a few times)
Have to admit though, with the glare and the haze, most of the time the sector light is about as useful as a fridge would be....
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Old 08-07-2015, 17:11   #19
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Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors

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Have to admit though, with the glare and the haze, most of the time the sector light is about as useful as a fridge would be....
Why... that's it!! That isn't a sector light at all; someone has opened the door on the fridge and the fridge light is shining out at us!

Jim
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Old 08-07-2015, 17:25   #20
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Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors

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Have to admit though, with the glare and the haze, most of the time the sector light is about as useful as a fridge would be....
So is it possible to safely/easily cross the wide bay bar without a gps or chart plotter. ie. by just using 'line of sight'?
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Old 08-07-2015, 18:35   #21
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Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors

Hi Crusing Cat,
when in contact with Tin Can MR we were not only given the new waypoint co-ordinates but also advised to stay just north of waypoint B for the reasons you mentioned. They seem to be on the ball up there and very helpful. Weather still looking good for Friday.
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Old 08-07-2015, 19:47   #22
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Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors

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So is it possible to safely/easily cross the wide bay bar without a gps or chart plotter. ie. by just using 'line of sight'?
A qualified yes. It is possible. You need some piloting skills. Get a paper chart. If you've never done this, better give it a miss, it's easier if it's already part of your skill set.

Use the waypoints given by the TCB VMR. Very carefully, plot them on the chart. The chart should show both the lead lights on Inskip Point, and where the sector light is. You'll be needing to pre-determine some bearings. So remember to do it all in true, and compensate when you sight with your compass, or convert the true to the magnetic. Use the magnetic variation shown on the chart, but you bring it up to date.

Figure out where, relative to both those triangulation points. you will need to be (the time when the correct bearing is shown for the turns). Keep the mark steady against the background to keep from being set. USE BINOCULARS. This will be the hard part, keeping the sector light still against the background, 'cause it is pretty featureless. Don't turn towards it till it is bearing the compass heading you worked out, factoring in the little bit further north. Don,t go where there is any breaking water, stay to the landward side of it. Stay steady on that course till the double leads on Inskip point line up. Turn towards the double leads when they line up, and keep them lined up till you're about two thirds across the mouth (you can go farther if you want, watching the depths) and head on in when you deem it safe.

For a first time crossing, I think it is much easier to do this at high water slack in the morning, with the light behind you. KEEP TRACK OF THE DEPTHS. On the outer leg, sudden shallowing indicates you're in the wrong place, the shallowing should be gradual. If not, do a 180 deg. turn and head out on your reciprocal course till you're in deep water (say about 45 ft.) Check the bearings, figure out your mistake, and then start over.

Yes, it can be done, you to decide if it is safe and/or easy, but you'd probably rather use gps and a chart plotter.

Ann

FWIW, you can also sail north on the outside, and if you want to go into Hervey Bay, you can do this on eyeballs, but you need to give Breaksea Spit a wide berth, say, 5 mi., because there may be a very strong onshore set and tidal swirlies.
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Old 09-07-2015, 17:17   #23
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Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors

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Turn towards the double leads when they line up, and keep them lined up till you're about two thirds across the mouth (you can go farther if you want, watching the depths) and head on in when you deem it safe.
In recent years we've found it necessary to go a hundred metres or so PAST the point where the Inskip point leads line up, before turning SW.
As you get further in, you can gradually steer back onto the line of them.

Main thing is, use the leads as a GUIDE, but keep your eyes open and steer away from breaking water.

I wouldn't even consider crossing WBB in the dark. It would be a lottery.
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Old 09-07-2015, 17:21   #24
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Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors

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Hi Crusing Cat,
when in contact with Tin Can MR we were not only given the new waypoint co-ordinates but also advised to stay just north of waypoint B for the reasons you mentioned. They seem to be on the ball up there and very helpful. Weather still looking good for Friday.
Yes, they're very good, and you should be fine. Best of luck!

Our own "rule of thumb" these days is - if the forecast swell is 2 metres or more, give it a miss.
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Old 09-07-2015, 17:25   #25
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Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors

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So is it possible to safely/easily cross the wide bay bar without a gps or chart plotter. ie. by just using 'line of sight'?
The sector light is easiest to see in the early morning, very difficult in the afternoon.
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Old 09-07-2015, 18:23   #26
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Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors

Thanks Ann & 44'cruisingcat. A chartplotter sounds like a wise investment
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Old 09-07-2015, 18:30   #27
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Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors

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I wouldn't even consider crossing WBB in the dark. It would be a lottery.
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Old 09-07-2015, 18:30   #28
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Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors

I spent 3 days camping on Inskip Point this May, and the bar was pretty readable from inside looking out. BTW, in 3 days I didn't see a single sailboat sailing--catamaran or mono, they all motored in and out.
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Old 09-07-2015, 21:19   #29
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Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors

LOL! At Inskip point you're 2 1/2 - 3 miles away from the actual bar crossing. And there is much shallower/rougher water between Inskip and the actual crossing area.


From there I doubt you'd be able to "read" much at all.


We've sailed in, but the weather really needs to be near perfect. We usually motor in, sometimes with the headsail up. Going out we usually have the main up, but still motor - usually at least part of the exit is dead upwind.
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Old 09-07-2015, 21:39   #30
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Re: Wide Bay Bar: Waypoints and Navionics errors

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LOL! At Inskip point you're 2 1/2 - 3 miles away from the actual bar crossing. And there is much shallower/rougher water between Inskip and the actual crossing area.


From there I doubt you'd be able to "read" much at all.


We've sailed in, but the weather really needs to be near perfect. We usually motor in, sometimes with the headsail up. Going out we usually have the main up, but still motor - usually at least part of the exit is dead upwind.
For monohulls, having some sail up helps damp the sometimes vigorous rolling set up by the chaotic seas between inskip and the turning point. The locals all that bit the "mad mile", and it can be pretty lumpy, with seas from all directions, very steep and short wavelength. Not usually dangerous, but bloody unpleasant.

I've never done it in a cat, but can imagine some pretty jerky acccelerations with a multi too.

And as to doing it in the dark... well, a friend of ours did in his lightwave 38 a few years ago. Caught a big wave, surfing at over 16 knots, he stuck a bow into the sandy bottom and pitchpoled. He says he was right on the leads... but of course could not see any wave action ahead of him. Lost the rig, of course, but suffered surprisingly little structural damage. Not a really good practice IMO!

Jim
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