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Old 11-01-2016, 06:29   #121
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Re: Why would broker ask me not to disclose price paid to surveyor?

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, loup.
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Old 11-01-2016, 06:52   #122
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Re: Why would broker ask me not to disclose price paid to surveyor?

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
As the buyer, I am the client. If you don't meet my needs to the best of your ability, you have failed.
Perhaps we are splitting hairs but If I don't make the most accurate statement of value that I can without influence of any other particular party ... I have failed.
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Old 11-01-2016, 08:12   #123
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Re: Why would broker ask me not to disclose price paid to surveyor?

Boatpoker

After reading your website and your posts, you are a rare surveyor. If I ever get another boat, I just might fly you down!


Sent from my iPhone- please forgive autocorrect errors.
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Old 11-01-2016, 11:13   #124
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Re: Why would broker ask me not to disclose price paid to surveyor?

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. When called to survey a boat, one of the first things I say to a potential client is "Please do not tell me what you paid for the boat". I have to come up with an actual cash market value and do not want to be influenced or appear to be influenced by anyone's opinion but my own.

This is not me arguing your method or even criticizing your position. I just feel that if a value needs to be determined on a purchase, what better evidence of value than the one right there in front of the surveyor? A specific boat, at a specific place, time, and condition, been on the market for xxx, agreed upon between buyer and seller with all known variables disclosed. What better starting point? I would just want the surveyor to uncover the unknowns for possible renegotiation (or bail) and justify the purchase price.


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Old 11-01-2016, 11:46   #125
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Re: Why would broker ask me not to disclose price paid to surveyor?

After reading posts and probably running my mouth.

I almost think you have a good broker. He has a commission in the mix but doesn't want a surveyor biased by the price you have offered. I can see no up side for him in that approach? If the survey is higher he makes a sale if lower he may lose one. The only winner I can see is you.
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Old 11-01-2016, 21:26   #126
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Re: Why would broker ask me not to disclose price paid to surveyor?

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After reading posts and probably running my mouth.

I almost think you have a good broker. He has a commission in the mix but doesn't want a surveyor biased by the price you have offered. I can see no up side for him in that approach? If the survey is higher he makes a sale if lower he may lose one. The only winner I can see is you.
Seems like a pretty strong bias on the brokers end. He may have lost a few sales (or had his commission reduced) when the valuation came back low and now purely in his self interest, he is trying to head that off.

No sale = No commission
20% price reduction = 20% commission reduction

On the other end, if you are trying to set up an agreed value insurance policy for $100k and the surveyor comes back with a valuation of $90k, the buyer loses.
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Old 12-01-2016, 19:06   #127
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Re: Why would broker ask me not to disclose price paid to surveyor?

A lot of opinions on this topic.

I recall a commodities trader writing about his father, a rancher. His father would never disclose to anyone the price at which any cattle traded. That was his information. Knowledge is power and why would you ever give pricing power to someone who might eventually be on the other side of a transaction? A surveyor is hired by the buyer and is his agent, legally and morally. His findings and opinion are your (the buyer) property and must never be disclosed to anyone, not now, not ever. Generally, a surveyor's job is to ascertain the condition of the vessel. He might venture an opinion on the boat's suitability for the intended use. His opinion on financial value is just that, an opinion, although he is pretty close to the market and I would certainly take his opinion under consideration.

The broker works for and is paid by the seller. It has been claimed that the broker wants a high price. That is absolutely false. What the broker wants is a sale. That is the only way he'll be paid. His first task is to get an offer. Then the fun begins.

The broker is a salesman and while anyone would prefer a big commission to a small one, everyone prefers a commission to no commission. Most salesmen are weak. A weak salesman sells price; a strong salesman stresses benefits. The boat market is inefficient, but certainly the internet has made a lot more information available.

Shop wisely, never be in a hurry to buy (or sell), and always remember, the first price is never the price. And, often, neither is the second, third and fourth price.

Paul
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Old 12-01-2016, 19:43   #128
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Re: Why would broker ask me not to disclose price paid to surveyor?

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A lot of opinions on this topic.

I recall a commodities trader writing about his father, a rancher. His father would never disclose to anyone the price at which any cattle traded. That was his information. Knowledge is power and why would you ever give pricing power to someone who might eventually be on the other side of a transaction? A surveyor is hired by the buyer and is his agent, legally and morally. His findings and opinion are your (the buyer) property and must never be disclosed to anyone, not now, not ever. Generally, a surveyor's job is to ascertain the condition of the vessel. He might venture an opinion on the boat's suitability for the intended use. His opinion on financial value is just that, an opinion, although he is pretty close to the market and I would certainly take his opinion under consideration.

The broker works for and is paid by the seller. It has been claimed that the broker wants a high price. That is absolutely false. What the broker wants is a sale. That is the only way he'll be paid. His first task is to get an offer. Then the fun begins.

The broker is a salesman and while anyone would prefer a big commission to a small one, everyone prefers a commission to no commission. Most salesmen are weak. A weak salesman sells price; a strong salesman stresses benefits. The boat market is inefficient, but certainly the internet has made a lot more information available.

Shop wisely, never be in a hurry to buy (or sell), and always remember, the first price is never the price. And, often, neither is the second, third and fourth price.

Paul
Well said, +1
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Old 20-01-2016, 12:36   #129
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Re: Why would broker ask me not to disclose price paid to surveyor?

(1) It is difficult to imagine any valid reason for the broker - who acts for the seller - to involve himself in communications between purchaser and surveyor. There is a clear conflict of interest.

(2) I'm surprised anyone pays attention to values contained within survey reports. Such values are typically hugely overstated and are similar to 'insurance valuations' on jewellery: based upon wishful thinking, not actual cash value in the secondhand market. And it's not as if surveyors have significant professional valuation training or special access to information.

The OP has already made an offer, and so presumably knows what this boat is worth to him. All he needs from the surveyor is identification of any substantial defects: which he may then use to walk away from the deal, or alternatively adjust his offer price.

The true market value of any boat is established by the purchaser. The surveyor's opinion on value doesn't matter.
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Old 20-01-2016, 12:55   #130
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Re: Why would broker ask me not to disclose price paid to surveyor?

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...The true market value of any boat is established by the purchaser. The surveyor's opinion on value doesn't matter.

Really? Let's say the surveyor is a good and trusted friend with experience in the buying and selling of many tens, if not hundreds of boats. The surveyor knows MUCH more than the buyer, including market trends, labor and parts prices and trends, not to mention a good handle on the buyer's objectives, skills and intended uses.

All of these do and should affect the valuation, which should be provided. In these circumstances, the surveyor is in a position to not only value the boat and comment on its value relative to similar designs, but also on the time, trouble and expense for that particular buyer to bring the craft to the intended purpose. The surveyor ought also be able to comment on future value, again based on valuations relative to the buyer and his/her intentions.

I could disagree more.
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Old 20-01-2016, 14:15   #131
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Re: Why would broker ask me not to disclose price paid to surveyor?

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
Seems like a pretty strong bias on the brokers end. He may have lost a few sales (or had his commission reduced) when the valuation came back low and now purely in his self interest, he is trying to head that off.

No sale = No commission
20% price reduction = 20% commission reduction

On the other end, if you are trying to set up an agreed value insurance policy for $100k and the surveyor comes back with a valuation of $90k, the buyer loses.
I am not a big fan of salesmen. Some are good honest people and some are throw enough **** on the wall some will stick.

You will have to explain the insurance implication? If no money has changed hands.
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Old 20-01-2016, 14:41   #132
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Re: Why would broker ask me not to disclose price paid to surveyor?

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(1) I'm surprised anyone pays attention to values contained within survey reports. Such values are typically hugely overstated and are similar to 'insurance valuations' on jewellery: based upon wishful thinking, not actual cash value in the secondhand market. And it's not as if surveyors have significant professional valuation training or special access to information.
For the past 25 years I have done 240 surveys per year, so yes I do have much more experience in valuations than most buyers. I also pay a little over $600/yr. (Canadian dollarettes) for access to soldboats.com which few buyers have access to. If they are provided soldboats data by a broker it is the stripped down version. I have never overstated a value (even when requested which is often) and always strive to state the closest number possible to "Actual Market Value". As the only person with no skin in the game (buyer,broker, seller) it is easy for the surveyor to provide a completely objective value.
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Old 20-01-2016, 14:56   #133
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Re: Why would broker ask me not to disclose price paid to surveyor?

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For the past 25 years I have done 240 surveys per year, so yes I do have much more experience in valuations than most buyers. I also pay a little over $600/yr. (Canadian dollarettes) for access to soldboats.com which few buyers have access to. If they are provided soldboats data by a broker it is the stripped down version. I have never overstated a value (even when requested which is often) and always strive to state the closest number possible to "Actual Market Value". As the only person with no skin in the game (buyer,broker, seller) it is easy for the surveyor to provide a completely objective value.
I hope you and everyone else can disregard the derogatory remark on a surveyor. An unsubstantiated blanket statement is not worth a response.
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Old 20-01-2016, 15:12   #134
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Re: Why would broker ask me not to disclose price paid to surveyor?

I treat buying a boat or car like an eBay purchase.


Offer the maximum that you are prepared to pay and if it doesn't work out, walk away.


The surveyor and broker can do whatever they want, take it or leave it, they can fight about, keep things secret and whatever they want. If a false price appears on soldboat then you know that they are dodgy and either take action accordingly, or don't. It's not something to lose sleep over.
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Old 20-01-2016, 15:32   #135
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Re: Why would broker ask me not to disclose price paid to surveyor?

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I hope you and everyone else can disregard the derogatory remark on a surveyor. An unsubstantiated blanket statement is not worth a response.
Believe me, I'm used to it
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