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Old 19-11-2005, 15:34   #31
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Mr Wheeler, kiwis suffer from the small poppy sindrome, when they are jealous of someone elses magnificant feats they always have to knock them and put them down. Pull your head in.
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Old 19-11-2005, 16:00   #32
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As to MOB poles - Orange is more visible during the day. We fish out on Stellwagen Bank alot, and the deep water lobstermen set tall poles to mark the end of their strings. They are orange and we pick them up with naked eye from 2 miles off. We use these poles as visual aids when running at high speed because they also mark the edge of the bank. They have other poles there, but we do not see them until we are on top of them. Think the commercial guys know something about finding their gear ? Bigger markers also have radar refector materials attached. On my last MOB I added 3M reflective tape because at night it really lights up. We also had a strobe, but would not want to assume it would always work, even though we tested periodically, and understood it had a limited life due to battery. Same with the distress flag - why assume it will remain attached ?The point is orange is not perfect, but orange or yellow definitely show up better. I'm no scientist, but I have spent enough time out there looking for marks to know what works. I agree with the comment about green cans ! First find the nun, then you will find the can. Green is much tougher to spot.

As to whales - There are alot of whales on Stellwagen in the summer. All our close calls with whales seemed to be caused by the whale not noticing we were there. Most near misses occur when drifting or under sail. If you see one coming close - start the engine. Time and again when we do this, they suddenly change course away from us. Think of them as similar to half the drivers on the road - not paying attention to where they are going.

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Old 19-11-2005, 17:28   #33
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We have a very long channel marked by the usuall red and green markers. I know where to look for them of course, but I can see them and definintley their individual colours from at least 2Nm out. But I imagine they would stand out more if the colour was the bright type.

Ummm, Alienzdive, thats a bit of a prejudice opinion isn't it. And just how many Kiwi's do you know?
Have I attacked anyone within this thread, or any post I have ever made for that matter??
Have I infered anything toward anyone in this thread???
I thought this topic on colour interesting. I don't care if you or anyone else wants to paint anything on their boat in what ever colour they want. It's not my problem and I have no issue with it, apart from advice and I don't care if the person heads my advice or not. And if you don't like advice being given, then I suggest you stay away from BB's.
You have only ever made two posts on this BB in a year and this very one of the two is an attack. I suggest it is not me that has an issue with Jealousey. How about contributing for a change, instead of beig a user and a flamer.
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Old 19-11-2005, 21:44   #34
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Alan - While I don't doubt that you are able to make out the colour of buoys at 2 miles, I noted that you knew where to look. I suspect the conditions were favourable too. This is entirely dependent on light conditions and/or obscuring phenomena. I would suggest that most of the time, for anyone to make out the colour of a buoy beyond 2 miles, one needs to use binoculars. I would suggest that beyond 5 miles, even this is not possible in all but perfect viewing conditions. I invite everyone to test this for themselves and actually measure the range at which the colour of the buoy is clearly apparent by the naked eye alone. Remember too, that buoys are huge! As I said before, lighter shades would simply render the buoys less visible when the background is light.

Capt Lar - As for the lobster-trap markers - just how thick are these poles?!? If they are what I think they are, they're like fishing rods or bamboo rods (which are commonly used for this purpose in Asian waters) anywhere from 6 to 15 feet in length - we call them 'high flyers.' I think you have significantly over-estimated the range at which you can see these things. Let's put this in perspective, and our pilot friends (the airplane type) can help us out here. Flying at 12,000 ft can you make out the dividing line on a road below? I imagine if you look hard, you probably can, but you know where to look - the centre of the road, which is more than obvious and these are 4 or 5 inches wide and painted with retro-reflective paint. Imagine now that the earth is paved as far as the eye can see; and that dividing line is only 1 inch wide and 15 feet long; and it's randomly placed somewhere on that uniform, grey asphalt earth - tell me what are your chances of finding it?

Anyone up for the challenge?

Kevin
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Old 20-11-2005, 01:26   #35
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Yes you are exactly right Kevin. I doubt I could pick out a marker from that distance if I didn't know exactly where to look. What I was trying to describe, was that the poles at that distance didn't look black. You can indeed still see them as the colour they are.
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Old 20-11-2005, 07:44   #36
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Sorry Alan, I disagree. At a distance, what you see is a difference in light, that is a lighter-shaded object against a darker background or vice versa. The human eye has two types of photoreceptor cells - rods and cones. There are a thousand times as many rods as there are cones. The rods determine light or dark (monochromatic) and are the more sensitive cells; they are responsible for night vision. The cones determine colour and are required for detail; they are much less sensitive, so they need much more light to function. As distance increases, light attenuates and colour fades . That's why, as I look out at distant mountains covered in evergreen trees, they look grey or black. You will almost always be able to make out the shape of the buoy/ship/object against its background, before you can determine its colour and while it may not necessarily look black, it will be a shade of grey.

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Old 20-11-2005, 07:45   #37
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Lodesman - Sorry - I was not clear in my post. If it were one pole, 1/2 mile would be more likely, but this is a series of parallel major set lines with easily 2 dozen markers. Their height really helps pick them up early. No one can pick up a single marker at two miles with naked eye. At somewhere under 2 miles it will appear as one spot, but is actually many poles. Yes we are using GPS so we know what we are looking for. My point was the orange flags and poles REALLY stand out. Your point is well taken, a MOB in orange is tough to spot in the first place. A debate over whether or not a grey, or any dull colored marker is as easily seen as one that has traditional bright colors is silly. I think it is true that a black pole can also be seen in bright conditions, but not as well and not as soon. I mentioned the reflective tapes because they work well in low light or haze. I use a combo of white and red but I think chartreuse (greenish yellow) is probably the best. Chartreuse is a great color for fishing lures, plugs, flys as well. Guest the fish can see it better, too.

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Old 20-11-2005, 08:14   #38
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Capt Lar - Chartreuse! There, you've made me say it Frankly, I thought fish (and most other animals for that matter) were colour-blind. Is there an ichthyologist in the house?
The point I tried to make, is that there is no one colour that will be ideal in all conditions. There are some conditions (due to light levels and the colour of the background) where black objects will be more readily apparent than blaze orange objects. Granted this would be rare; the vast majority of the time, the orange will be much easier to see.
Oh yeah, that 3M tape is brilliant stuff! (No, I don't work for them).

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Old 20-11-2005, 08:58   #39
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Alienzdive.
There is no need for that kind of crap.
Your third post and you use it to make derogoratory remarks.
I have an NZ passport and have been in Canada since 1969.
In that time no one has ever said anything along the lines of your remark.
I know the Lions won the would cup of rugby, and they should be proud, fortunately they had enough Welsh and Scottish players on the team.
The above is an example of a little humour that should not offend as it is not aimed at an individual.
Do you have anything to add to the colour topic ?
Michael
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Old 20-11-2005, 11:32   #40
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Hehe, but we bet the Lions in the weekend. Go the All Blacks.
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Old 20-11-2005, 13:31   #41
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Lodesman - Yep, the eye of the fish does not see color. Nevertheless, some "colors" work really well, and again my point - it is not the specific color that makes it more visible, but rather the contrast to background or the refecting of light that makes it stand out. As I said, I am no scientist, but I know how hard it is to pick up dull colors in many conditions. SOLAS and others have worked hard to come up with rational safety regulations and guidelines. Seems to make sense to follow their advise.

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Old 20-11-2005, 14:34   #42
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Gee - I thought that was my point.
I think the LSA Code recommends using "highly visible colours" - whatever the heck that means. They also recommend the use of retro-reflective material - no argument here.

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Old 29-11-2005, 00:16   #43
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Iím sure most of you have noticed workers with safety vests on while around traffic. Youíve probably observed fire engines as well, and a host of other occupations that have adopted visible colors in an attempt to be seen.

In each case, the vast majority of onlookers associate these colors with danger, warnings, and most of us recognize the utility of orange/bright yellow colors for this reason. Furthermore, the US has large agencies testing these colors, and of course, enforcing code.

For sailors, fluorescent hoods, prismatic reflective strips and gold colors allow Coast Guard rescue personnel to spot you, where otherwise you would go unnoticed.

However, for some unknown reason, shoppers typically choose dark life vestsóas if itís a fashion show. Check out the marine stores. I suppose it is better to have someone wear a black vest than none at all isnít it? Ė eventually someone will find the body.

Question/Answer: Question, why do companies produce life jackets in black? Answer, they can, and they sell. Question, why should they produce only visible jackets? Answer, repeat business.

Oh well, that's my tint on life.
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Old 29-11-2005, 00:35   #44
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Phew......42 responses over the colour of a MOB pole.

Let's see if we can't make it 100.

Bright colours stick out for me - so it suits me to have one.

If black ones stick out for others - great, they can choose black.

But I don't think many peoples views (sic) will change due to the arguments of others, or will they?

Cheers

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Old 29-11-2005, 11:37   #45
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Many of my views have changed specifically from this forum and the different opinions with supporting evidence presented here. If you suggest someone can participate in this forum and not change their opinions, they are either very smart or very thick.

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