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Old 11-01-2017, 14:20   #136
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Re: Why people may not help you!

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Originally Posted by alctel View Post
I admire your tenacity Mike - but by now you should know that saying 'but look at all this extensive peer-reviewed research done over a long period of time' isn't going to work, at least around here.
I'm not sure saying "significant body of peer-reviewed research" is going to work anywhere, unfortunately. Modern technology is great at feeding each individual precisely the exact stuff needed to reinforce preconditioned beliefs. Google knows full well to not serve up ads for a Michael Moore film to Bill O'Reilly. Ya don't get clicks and $$$ that way. Gotta feed the confirmation bias.

(I'm not saying confirmation bias is bad, just that it is a part of human nature. And I'm not commenting on the content of the data Mike provided.)

On a more positive note: Sailors generally view each other as the same ingroup. Sometimes we'll even accept powerboaters as our ingroup of boaters. And thus, same tribe, we'll be more than likely to help out. We also understand more of what other boaters may need.
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Old 11-01-2017, 14:27   #137
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Re: Why people may not help you!

I stopped in the evening and pouring rain to help a stranded motorist with a flat tire. She was driving a Mercedes, I filled her tire from a 5lb CO2 bottle I carry w me. She stayed in the car with it running. She had a pretty good leak going and as I finished I went to tell her about it but she took off as I stood up. No "thank you" or anything. A few miles down the road there she was again, same flat. This time I slowed down, turned my dome light on and waved at her as I went by VERY slowly.
I wasn't wearing my dress blues at the time though ;-)
I still carry that CO2 bottle and I still help people. It makes me feel good, I think that makes me selfish.
How's my punctuation?
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Old 11-01-2017, 14:41   #138
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Re: Why people may not help you!

QUOTE=SSgtPitt;2301189]I stopped in the evening and pouring rain to help a stranded motorist with a flat tire. She was driving a Mercedes, I filled her tire from a 5lb CO2 bottle I carry w me. She stayed in the car with it running. She had a pretty good leak going and as I finished I went to tell her about it but she took off as I stood up. No "thank you" or anything. A few miles down the road there she was again, same flat. This time I slowed down, turned my dome light on and waved at her as I went by VERY slowly.
I wasn't wearing my dress blues at the time though ;-)
I still carry that CO2 bottle and I still help people. It makes me feel good, I think that makes me selfish.
How's my punctuation?[/QUOTE]

I thought I was the only one that ever carried a CO2 bottle with a regulator to fill tires. Slow a frozen regulator.
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Old 11-01-2017, 14:43   #139
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Re: Why people may not help you!

As St Paul said "The excessive greedy love of money is the root of all kinds of evil."
You find it in rich and poor alike. Its a twisted mindset.
The poor of this group are hardened against and jealous and angry about the rich. The rich of this group are hardened against and condescending and judgmental of the poor.
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Old 11-01-2017, 15:24   #140
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Re: Why people may not help you!

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As St Paul said "The excessive greedy love of money is the root of all kinds of evil."
You find it in rich and poor alike. Its a twisted mindset.
The poor of this group are hardened against and jealous and angry about the rich. The rich of this group are hardened against and condescending and judgmental of the poor.
No, what some of us are actually trying to get across, is that "you can't judge a book by it's cover." But some seem stuck on making sweeping generalizations and placing people of different income levels into niceness categories... which is ridiculous.
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Old 11-01-2017, 15:34   #141
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Re: Why people may not help you!

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No, what some of us are actually trying to get across, is that "you can't judge a book by it's cover." But some seem stuck on making sweeping generalizations and placing people of different income levels into niceness categories... which is ridiculous.
Totally agree Ken. Can't tell from the outside.
Its what's inside a person that decides which category they are in, and between black and white there are infinite shades of grey.
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Old 11-01-2017, 15:45   #142
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Re: Why people may not help you!

I thought I was the only one that ever carried a CO2 bottle with a regulator to fill tires. Slow a frozen regulator.[/QUOTE]

It drives my trim guns too. But sometimes makes me look like that guy from "no country for old men" as i walk up to your car.
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Old 11-01-2017, 16:01   #143
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Re: Why people may not help you!

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I thought I was the only one that ever carried a CO2 bottle with a regulator to fill tires. Slow a frozen regulator.
It drives my trim guns too. But sometimes makes me look like that guy from "no country for old men" as i walk up to your car.[/QUOTE]

Yep, I can see that You hadn't popped any locks out lately. At on time I carried two in the trunk, I was always afraid of a neck braking off and having a jet assist. More likely a trunk full of dry ice. Chills a beer quick.
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Old 11-01-2017, 16:41   #144
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Re: Why people may not help you!

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No, what some of us are actually trying to get across, is that "you can't judge a book by it's cover." But some seem stuck on making sweeping generalizations and placing people of different income levels into niceness categories... which is ridiculous.
Agreed.
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Old 12-01-2017, 10:26   #145
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Re: Why people may not help you!

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I've met dickheads of all financial backgrounds too. The trouble with making the sort of generalization you are putting forward, is that it groups people together and passes judgment on them as a group. Once you've accepted that wealthier people generally aren't as nice or generous as poor people, that tends to color your first impressions of them and that can become self fulfilling so you end up seeing what you expect to see.
Another word for it is bias or bigotry.

Peer review does not mean much anymore and not sure it really ever meant much. It should but I gained lots of weight eating what the government said I should eat based on peer studies. How many studies have we seen that says eggs, red meat, butter, etc are great for you? Then years later these same foods are so bad that they will danged near kill you if you look at them. Now a days, it is ok to eat them. At least that is what some studies say.

What I now know, and it did not take a government grant and studies to know, is what my Granny always said. Eat in moderation. Eat a variety of foods. Avoid the Three Evil White Foods, white rice, white flour and white sugar. Granny did not need a peer reviewed study to figure this out. If I had listened to Granny at an earlier age I would have saved me some angst and fat. But poor ol' Granny was only a teacher and did not do "studies."

Remember doctors telling people with ulcers that they were just stressed out worry warts? Oh, wait. It was not all in their head but an actual infection...

Later,
Dan
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Old 12-01-2017, 10:34   #146
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I'm to good looking..???
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Old 12-01-2017, 11:13   #147
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Re: Why people may not help you!

No science, no papers to back it up, but I agree with Mike. This is pure opinion.
I believe there are enough who have clawed their way to the top by lieing, cheating and stealing that it skews the odds, does not mean that if you have money, your an ass, however I do believe the percentage is higher.
Then you have quite a few that so desperately want you to believe they have money, they work their butts off so they can have the possessions of wealthy people and will show them off, they believe that if your wealthy, then you are better than those that are not, so they want to be perceived that way.
BTW, Society shares their views, what are VIP's for instance?
Anyway these types are invariably stingy, they will stick the help for tips, will not pay unless they cannot get away without, if your out to dinner with them, guess who picks up the check?
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Old 12-01-2017, 12:33   #148
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Re: Why people may not help you!

I can speak to a recent "kindness of strangers" experience. After spending a less than fruitful summer of commercial fishing in Alaska, I decided to move our operation south to get in on the commercial Albacore fishing off the west coast of the USA. Stopped into Sitka to visit friends for a bit and when the different dock walkers would inquire as to our mission, when told, we would receive helpful advice as to the approach for successful Albacore fishing, even given names of different vessels in the area that might be willing to help us learn the fishery. We ended up in a small marina in Astoria, where we came across one of the vessels that had been named. After speaking with them for a bit, they were unstinting in their advice and even gave us a couple of rigs that they had found effective for catching the fish, also the location of the local services and the cheapest fuel, we had no way to repay them other than thank you and an offer to help them with whatever we could, they wanted nothing in return. We continued our voyage on down to Newport, OR, and were overwhelmed by the helpfulness of the other commercial fishers there, to someone who was coming into their area and would possibly be competition to them, we were able to help some people there in small ways, but nothing on the order of the help they gave us, as we learned how truly ignorant we were about how to commercial fish Albacore. I am truly grateful to those who gave up their time and information and will endeavor to pay it forward as best as I am able and to return the kindness that was shown to us by others who had no reason to help. With regards to the story about the truckers in Canada, we had the same rule in Alaska, never leave a stranded person out without offering help, the same is true on the ocean; regardless of the potential of being paid or repaid, the ones who are users and take advantage of people's kindness create their own problems, I do not let that affect how I operate. My mate was pretty green when we started and whenever I taught him something, I would remind him that he had an obligation to pass the knowledge on freely, as I had to him and as I had received from others, that is the law of the sea. Whether or not one does this, is on them.
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Old 12-01-2017, 12:40   #149
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Re: Why people may not help you!

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No science, no papers to back it up, but I agree with Mike. This is pure opinion.
I believe there are enough who have clawed their way to the top by lieing, cheating and stealing that it skews the odds, does not mean that if you have money, your an ass, however I do believe the percentage is higher.
Then you have quite a few that so desperately want you to believe they have money, they work their butts off so they can have the possessions of wealthy people and will show them off, they believe that if your wealthy, then you are better than those that are not, so they want to be perceived that way.
BTW, Society shares their views, what are VIP's for instance?
Anyway these types are invariably stingy, they will stick the help for tips, will not pay unless they cannot get away without, if your out to dinner with them, guess who picks up the check?
You and Mike have obviously been spending too much time hanging out with the wrong people IMHO which has skewed your views. Remember that it works both ways, if you view wealthy people with distain, they will pick up on it and respond accodingly. They got to where they are by being able to read people rather quickly.
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Old 12-01-2017, 12:53   #150
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Re: Why people may not help you!

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They got to where they are by being able to read people rather quickly.
Or perhaps they were born into money, were lucky, or by some other mechanism.

From my perspective, those that have been stranded by unreliable vehicles, walked miles to get fuel, experienced a flatted cycle or bike tire, stuck in the mud, snow, other, been aground with & in need of a tug tend, etc. tend to be more responsive to one in similar plight. Having been in many of the above predicaments and having hitch hiked, ridden & sailed a bit, I understand. while I used to jump right in, I now find with age & experience I am more wary and try to fully assess a given situation & my safety prior to assisting. Reminds me of the adage; Wisdom is the result of experience & experience is the result of bad judgment.
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