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Old 20-04-2019, 09:51   #16
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Re: Why is finding/buying a boat so hard? What to do about it?

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Originally Posted by Woodland Hills View Post
I donít understand about not being able to create a list of boats that you are interested in: is your pencil broken, ballpoint pen out of ink?
Yeah I mean that is one approach but only solves part of the problem. Still need lots of other features.
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Old 20-04-2019, 09:59   #17
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Re: Why is finding/buying a boat so hard? What to do about it?

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I do not see the value in criticizing the functionality of those websites. They are a business, so up to them what features they want to invest in. To me it's the quality of the **content** is what really matters.

Complain to **them** if you want to see things change, but don't hold your breath.

Obviously it is up to each prospect to create their own system for bookmarking pages and keeping track of different candidates' details.
Oh you misunderstand I think. I'm not just "complaining". Nor do I think that those websites have an obligation to do anything differently (although I think they would be wise to change).

I'm trying to get some advice from people on better approaches for finding boats and start a conversation around that so the community (you, me, others here) can benefit from that knowledge. Hear what has worked for people or just understand that maybe it is a long process and that there are no shortcuts.

Also, since I do actually have the skills to build site that has the capabilities I want, I'm curious as to whether there is enough demand for that, or if others are sort of satisfied with what is out there.
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Old 20-04-2019, 10:03   #18
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Re: Why is finding/buying a boat so hard? What to do about it?

I'm in Canada, and use kijiji for my boat search. It has almost all of the features you requested.

https://www.kijiji.ca/b-sailboat/ont...sort=priceDesc

It does not however, change the fact that most of the boats listed are in poor condition, overpriced, or far far away.

IMHO, the very best boats sell quickly and locally.

And yes, I share your pain. I'm looking for my next boat too.

Another source of boats for sale is to visit the web page of the owners association of the make/model you are looking for.

For examples, Hunters 34 to 36 feet:
https://hunter.sailboatowners.com/cl...erted&dir=DESC

Some yacht clubs maintain their own classifieds. Although these listings usually have no search features other than a list based only on date posted.

Ashbridges Bay YC (Toronto): Buy & Sell -
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Old 20-04-2019, 10:05   #19
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Re: Why is finding/buying a boat so hard? What to do about it?

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Oh you misunderstand I think. I'm not just "complaining". Nor do I think that those websites have an obligation to do anything differently (although I think they would be wise to change).

I'm trying to get some advice from people on better approaches for finding boats and start a conversation around that so the community (you, me, others here) can benefit from that knowledge. Hear what has worked for people or just understand that maybe it is a long process and that there are no shortcuts.

Also, since I do actually have the skills to build site that has the capabilities I want, I'm curious as to whether there is enough demand for that, or if others are sort of satisfied with what is out there.
Are you available to hire for taking a mobile app developed in Ionic Framework (Angular and some Cordova) and creating a fully functional Progressive Web App from it? App already works. Just need a PWA created from the existing code.

Specifically areas where it calls Cordova need to be done in Angular only, location services, Stripe payment system, etc..

PM if you or a friend want to quote on this.

Sorry for any thread drift. Carry on about poor boat listing sites.
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Old 20-04-2019, 10:20   #20
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Re: Why is finding/buying a boat so hard? What to do about it?

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Originally Posted by sueanderic View Post
The harder part is finding the right boat.
Exactly. Plenty of boats out there. And buying one is a matter of putting down the money. The challenge is finding a boat of the design you prefer, equipped as you like, in the condition you want, at a price you are willing to pay. A website won't tell you that.
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Old 20-04-2019, 10:22   #21
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Re: Why is finding/buying a boat so hard? What to do about it?

I used Yachtworld as a starting point then visited the broker, who was listing the boat, to look at it and discuss it's boat's history with the broker. That is how I purchased 3 sailboats and 1 power boat over the last nine years. Fortunately the sailboats were local (San Francisco Bay) but the power boat was 500 miles away in Huntington Beach, CA.
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Old 20-04-2019, 10:36   #22
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Re: Why is finding/buying a boat so hard? What to do about it?

I have often wished for user reviews of listings on these sites as well as on real estate sites like Zillow. Unfortunately, that is the last thing the brokers who fund these sites want. If they wanted the bad stuff known, they would include it in the listing.
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Old 20-04-2019, 10:49   #23
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Re: Why is finding/buying a boat so hard? What to do about it?

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Originally Posted by paulg222 View Post
I don't know if it is just me going to the wrong websites, or if there just isn't a good online way to find boats.

I use mostly these 2 sites:
  • sailboatlistings.com
  • yachtworld.com

And frankly they are both severely lacking in capabilities. For example neither one supports a login, so they don't keep track of anything for you. I'll go do a search for boats, and I'm interested in some, not others. There is no way to create a list of ones I'm interested in.

Neither site does a great job of getting rid of old listings or verifying boats are still for sale.

When I click on "contact seller" in either system it lets me do that with a little pop-up. But I don't get a copy of the email, and have no way to keep track of who I've reached out to or what listing it is for.

Search features are limited. Yachtworld is better than sailboatlistings for search, but still can be improved.

In short either I'm doing it wrong, or the community is in dire need of a better system/website.

Some features I'd like:
* Support login
* Enable tracking of boats I'm interested in "the short list"
* keep listings up to date by removing old listings if owner doesn't indicate it is still for sale.
* Let boat inspectors or owners post inspection results so we don't have to have boat re-inspected 100 times
* Really good search and sort capabilities.
* Keep a list of different searches I've done.
* Have a seller and buyer communication channel with memory (keeps list of all messages between buyer and seller so we can see where things stand).
* Arrange for viewing/inspection/test sail via online scheduling, notifications, etc.
* Standard contracts for boat buying
*Let people rate different boat styles, makes, models on a range of categories (cruising, racing, comfort, etc).
And so on.

Let me know your thoughts.
You gotta get off the Internet and start looking at some boats.

A boat-search should be a labor of love...and learning, much like selecting a spouse...take your time, it took me five years to locate mine. However, you should have some idea what you want to do with the boat...basically, cruise or race. Secondly, you need to decide where you are going to do this: coastal, or offshore. Also, areas/regions sometimes have limiting factors such as shallow waters, calling for a shorter keel, or deep waters calling for deeper keel or more anchor chain.

With those basic decisions made start making the rounds of the docks/brokers to see what is available, what you like, what you don't like, and current prices...take lots of photos for reviewing back home. Not every seller lists his boat with a broker, I never have. At home, research in detail the ones you like and how they measure up to your sailing plans...then look them up on sailboatdata.com and compare their specifications and ratios.

Look beyond the two sites you listed such as craigslist and e-bay if for no other reason that price comparison, there are many others. What about local sailing magazine ads? Lastly, if you know the make/model of boat you want Google it and see all the ones the owners have listed and discussion about he boat. Look on Youtube for ads or just discussion abut the makes you are interested in.

Lastly, remember that all boats are tradeoffs, no boat will do everything well...i.e., a large cockpit may be great for parties but also means less room in the cabin and more water to deal with when you get pooped; a fin keel is great for maneuverability but doesn't hold course as well as a full keel. Is all tankage appropriate for your intended use? Determine what is important for your plans.

Good Luck on your search, enjoy the journey.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH
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Old 20-04-2019, 10:52   #24
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Re: Why is finding/buying a boat so hard? What to do about it?

Quote: "The photos are great, but the specifications are lacking. How old is all the equipment? '

Are you shopping for a boat, or are you shopping for equipment?

Possibly you need to commit you idea of your "ideal" boat, complete with bells and whistles, to a spreadsheet so you can "tick the boxes" when you see a listing.

But a more fundamental question is: Have you a firm idea of you ideal boat or are you hoping that an extensive internet search will firm up you mind about what a boat "ought" to be?

Finding and buying a boat is nothing like finding and buying a car or finding and buying a house. Boat brokers don't mainain a Multiple Listing Service.

But give us some idea of what it is you want a boat for, what it is you want your boat to do for you, and where you want it it to do it for you. Then maybe we can give you some ideas

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Old 20-04-2019, 11:08   #25
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Re: Why is finding/buying a boat so hard? What to do about it?

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Originally Posted by MJH View Post
you should have some idea what you want to do with the boat...basically, cruise or race.
Occasional use vs living aboard,

how far afield from coastlines too, crossing oceans

also make a big difference.
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Old 20-04-2019, 11:24   #26
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Re: Why is finding/buying a boat so hard? What to do about it?

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Originally Posted by paulg222 View Post
Oh you misunderstand I think. I'm not just "complaining". Nor do I think that those websites have an obligation to do anything differently (although I think they would be wise to change).

I'm trying to get some advice from people on better approaches for finding boats and start a conversation around that so the community (you, me, others here) can benefit from that knowledge. Hear what has worked for people or just understand that maybe it is a long process and that there are no shortcuts.

Also, since I do actually have the skills to build site that has the capabilities I want, I'm curious as to whether there is enough demand for that, or if others are sort of satisfied with what is out there.
I think there is always a demand for quality and many of the criticisms you state are legit. It particularly annoys me to see listings on websites that are years old and not really available. How hard is it to delete a listing ? Go for it.
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Old 20-04-2019, 11:35   #27
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Re: Why is finding/buying a boat so hard? What to do about it?

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Originally Posted by TrentePieds View Post
Quote: "The photos are great, but the specifications are lacking. How old is all the equipment? '

Are you shopping for a boat, or are you shopping for equipment?

Possibly you need to commit you idea of your "ideal" boat, complete with bells and whistles, to a spreadsheet so you can "tick the boxes" when you see a listing.

But a more fundamental question is: Have you a firm idea of you ideal boat or are you hoping that an extensive internet search will firm up you mind about what a boat "ought" to be?

Finding and buying a boat is nothing like finding and buying a car or finding and buying a house. Boat brokers don't mainain a Multiple Listing Service.

But give us some idea of what it is you want a boat for, what it is you want your boat to do for you, and where you want it it to do it for you. Then maybe we can give you some ideas

TrentePieds
The post you responded to was a response to a specific ad. And yes, for that specific post, the details that would determine the value were missing. A 1970's boat's value is completely determined by the condition and state of the equipment, e.g., the engine, the sails, and the electronics.

The OP isn't requesting that the community select or recommend a boat for someone. He's pointing out that the databases available to used boat customers lack the very features that one would find useful in such a search.

Sure, people can create their own spreadsheet or save a listing in a browser, but as the websites are already purpose-built for a boat search, it's rather glaring that some basic search options and features aren't there.

The OP is wondering aloud whether other people have also noticed.
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Old 20-04-2019, 11:38   #28
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Re: Why is finding/buying a boat so hard? What to do about it?

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Originally Posted by captlloyd View Post
I think there is always a demand for quality and many of the criticisms you state are legit. It particularly annoys me to see listings on websites that are years old and not really available. How hard is it to delete a listing ? Go for it.

I can say from experience that if you lose your login for sailboatlistings, it's pretty hard to get a post deleted.

But if you send a request every day for two or three weeks, it will eventually happen.

So don't lose your login.
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Old 20-04-2019, 13:00   #29
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Re: Why is finding/buying a boat so hard? What to do about it?

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Originally Posted by MJH View Post
You gotta get off the Internet and start looking at some boats.
...
Yeah this is totally true but not as easy as I would have hoped. I live about an hour from the coast (hopefully moving closer in a year or 2), and I don't really know people in the boating community. Do you suggest just driving to a marina and talking with people there? Who? Is there a "sales office" or anything like that at these marinas? Sorry I'm just not that in tune with how this stuff works.
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Old 20-04-2019, 13:46   #30
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Re: Why is finding/buying a boat so hard? What to do about it?

I'm a software guy and get your issues but none will provide the essential element, touch. Go touch boats, a lot. Chat with folks ask to look at their engine. I read and searched and read more and it all made sense once I was climbing into a lazarette. How it sails will only make sense under sail. Walk through the least fancy yards and chat, ask to look inside, compliment a lot. The best boat for you may be from an old salt that barely knows what email is but kept the essential systems pristine.
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