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Old 29-06-2012, 14:00   #16
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Re: Why I think ex charter boats are a great buy for cruisers

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
1) They seem to be priced lower. I do not see any direct relationship between a lower price and a fair price.

2) Where I live, they do.

3) You are a masochist. ;-)

4) If they are fairly priced and professionally maintained then why are they being sold?

5) Bava or Lagoon? That's choice! (For definition of 'that's choice!', ask any Kiwi).

;-)

There are many ways to look at things. Much depends on where and how one intends to cruise. As you explained, sometimes an ex-charter is the better choice.

b.
One conclusion I'm coming to is that we are entering into a world flooded with ex-charter boats. It seems the major operator (Moorings) has discovered that they can get someone else to buy the boats, and then can dump an entire fleet at the end of every season.

Yes, I am not kidding - they are planning to dump an ENTIRE FLEET at the end of every season, basically the minute these vessels reach 4 or 5 years old. Ok, I guess this not an entire fleet - it's 1/5 of an entire fleet.

Now, I think their intent is that the purchasers of these boats will simply take them back for private use, and that will be the end of that.

But I don't think so. I think the majority of these owners will quickly dump their boats on the open market.

In any case, there is a very large fleet of ex-charters up for sale right now by this group. If they do this every year, I have a hard time imagining how the market will sustain it.

My thinking is that these boats will fall by nearly another half in the next 3-4 years, possibly bouyed by inflation to some degree but otherwise thpppt.

Really? You don't see a correlation between lower prices and fairer prices? I think you're being hyperbolic. Lower prices are always fairer prices, except when they are unfairly low - a condition that a free market does not sustain.
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Old 29-06-2012, 14:02   #17
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Re: Why I think ex charter boats are a great buy for cruisers

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Do you trust in the maintenance logs on these boats? My expectation is that each vessel will have a maintenance record associated with it, but I can only hope that it will be accurate.

Also, I'm expecting that marine survey will reveal any permanent or secondary damages resulting from accidents and fiberglass issues.

Realistic?

I cant answer this question, i dont know if the charter companys have logs for the fleet, but i work sometimes for a couple of charter companys in the way to deliver back a boat to the main base or to do some serious repairs in the fleet, normally a charter company have a local crew to take care of simple repairs or maintenance, like checking that the toilets are working, pumps, faucets, lights, basic engine maintenance, leaks etc...

Charter boats are rented in operational condition, meaning that any system onboard is working, but look, a new sail in a private boat can last a bunch of good years, in a charter boat probably 4 or 5 years , same for engines, upholstery , sole floors, gelcoat, etc...

Surveyors sometimes miss structural disasters , a charter boat need to be surveyed with X rays , take a look at post hurricane Luis here in st marteen, many charter boats are repaired and the holes patched and put in the market again, who know, you never know the real history of this boats.
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Old 29-06-2012, 17:04   #18
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Re: Why I think ex charter boats are a great buy for cruisers

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(...) Really? You don't see a correlation between lower prices and fairer prices? I think you're being hyperbolic. Lower prices are always fairer prices, except when they are unfairly low - a condition that a free market does not sustain.
I said: "direct relationship", not "correlation". I think correlation below some threshold is interpreted as lack of relationship by statisticians.

Otherwise, take for example fair trade - it not about paying lower prices, it is about paying fair prices.

Now what you called the free market is actually a bunch of very rich Western corporations owned by very rich people, producing things in countries where neither work conditions nor pay are fair, to sell them with unfair gain to us Westerners who will mix up low prices with fair prices ...

Can't you see we have been brainwashed?

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Old 29-06-2012, 17:13   #19
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Re: Why I think ex charter boats are a great buy for cruisers

Yes, yes - I got carried away again ;-)))))

Now, my main criticism against ex-charter boats is that many of them (maybe most of them) will have suffered from accumulated, undisclosed abuse from countless users of questionable technical skills and unfathomed depth of lack of care for somebody else's property.

No doubt one can find a good condition, well priced ex-charter boat. But how many ex-charter boat buyers have the skills to tell a good boat from a bad one?

b.
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Old 29-06-2012, 17:39   #20
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Re: Why I think ex charter boats are a great buy for cruisers

Not me.

And yes, I have no bananas.
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Old 02-07-2012, 14:32   #21
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Re: Why I think ex charter boats are a great buy for cruisers

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
I said: "direct relationship", not "correlation". I think correlation below some threshold is interpreted as lack of relationship by statisticians.

Otherwise, take for example fair trade - it not about paying lower prices, it is about paying fair prices.

Now what you called the free market is actually a bunch of very rich Western corporations owned by very rich people, producing things in countries where neither work conditions nor pay are fair, to sell them with unfair gain to us Westerners who will mix up low prices with fair prices ...

Can't you see we have been brainwashed?

Love and flowers!
barnakiel
Yes, you're right about that, but this is an international charter organization operated by a sophisticated U.S. based corporation, so I do feel like "lower" equals "fairer" in this context. I trust in this company to make the best decisions for themselves without their judgment being clouded by what might be best for me!
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Old 02-07-2012, 15:40   #22
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If a charter boat is used 30 weeks a year of 210 days, and the average private boat is used 50 days a year, 5 year old charter boat is 20 in dog years. How much would you pay for a 20 year old Beneteau compared to what a charter company is asking?
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Old 02-07-2012, 16:59   #23
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Re: Why I think ex charter boats are a great buy for cruisers

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If a charter boat is used 30 weeks a year of 210 days, and the average private boat is used 50 days a year, 5 year old charter boat is 20 in dog years. How much would you pay for a 20 year old Beneteau compared to what a charter company is asking?
+1!

This is somewhat offset by charter boats not suffering from lack of use!

At times, it is hard to say which one is better: the one that has been used (but not abused) or the one that sat at the dock doing nothing for years.

I sometimes help owners get their boats into sea going shape - the worst cases are always boats that were NOT used!

Doh. Life. Boats. Balance and compromises. ;-)

b.
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Old 02-07-2012, 17:15   #24
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Re: Why I think ex charter boats are a great buy for cruisers

I spent years in the car rental business and they had a saying, "no one ever washes a rental car". Think about it.
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Old 03-07-2012, 04:00   #25
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I spent years in the car rental business and they had a saying, "no one ever washes a rental car". Think about it.
Huh? No one has to because the rental agency does.

A buddy just bought a Jenneau off charter. Great boat, decent and predictable price, no brainer on paperwork. A 5 y/o boat and he got exactly what he predicted he would get - they even threw in a new mainsail and it came with an $8,000 RIB. There are charter companies I would not buy from but I have no issue buying from a Sunsail or moorings.

Location would be a factor for me. There are locations where boats might get ridden harder and hung up wetter.

Buying the cherry boat from a private seller who truly cared about the boat is probably optimum. The reality is maybe 50% of the used boats out there are crap project boats with many hidden problems and usually the world's worst crap wiring as owners try to bodge all their upgrades together.
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